Sweden and Finland set to join NATO in May

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

As i had said somewhere else but put an other way:

If u are threatened by someone and u think u need a shield, dont come out of the wood to tell ur threatener:

'Hey wait! Im gonna look for a shield!'

Means, the moment they officially apply, they shouldnt be surprised if something bad happens on their territory, Finnish people are getting trained in the woods, but someone trains them how to shoot a hypersonic Russian thing?

And since an application doesnt mean being part of it, then Article 5 couldnt directly apply, right?

Then all of sudden Russia would have a wonderfull reason to strike some Western+EU countries without NATO could officially do anything in return, just a wonderfull humiliation of the kind Putin can really enjoy, just with the cost of a few missiles

Apparently a majority, but not so huge, in those countries agrees to join NATO, and amongst the opponents u can hear about, some people whoseem to be aware of such possibilities! Well, people there would be the 1st ones to be on the front line, so i guess it helps to be aware of this

I mean, instead, make everything done with NATO as secret and fast as possible, special procedures with ur parliament or whatever fits the situation, and then only come out of the wood to tell the bad guys:

'Hey look! We got a pretty damn good shield now!'

Might help, too late now, good luck

https://www.nouvelobs.com/russie/20220501.OBS57882/un-avion-russe-viole-l-espace-aerien-de-la-suede-une-action-totalement-inacceptable-pour-stockholm.html#xtor=EREC-10-[WM]-20220501&utm_source=welcoming&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_gratuit

Google translate might be ur friend, otherwise, in short, one more time during very last weeks, some Russian military planes in Sweden sky...

Reconnaissance, nerve testing, else?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlyjsp/status/1522221253293228032

Hey, the hypersonic things dont take 2 days to reach, but hey, up to them...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

https://mobile.twitter.com/charlyjsp/status/1522221253293228032

Hey, the hypersonic things dont take 2 days to reach, but hey, up to them...

what point do you think you're making?

Explained above

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Hmm, the point of a whole thread is to be followed in case of any inquiries about what is meant, so, there was this:

As i had said somewhere else but put an other way:

If u are threatened by someone and u think u need a shield, dont come out of the wood to tell ur threatener:

'Hey wait! Im gonna look for a shield!'

Means, the moment they officially apply, they shouldnt be surprised if something bad happens on their territory, Finnish people are getting trained in the woods, but someone trains them how to shoot a hypersonic Russian thing?

And since an application doesnt mean being part of it, then Article 5 couldnt directly apply, right?

Then all of sudden Russia would have a wonderfull reason to strike some Western+EU countries without NATO could officially do anything in return, just a wonderfull humiliation of the kind Putin can really enjoy, just with the cost of a few missiles

Apparently a majority, but not so huge, in those countries agrees to join NATO, and amongst the opponents u can hear about, some people whoseem to be aware of such possibilities! Well, people there would be the 1st ones to be on the front line, so i guess it helps to be aware of this

I mean, instead, make everything done with NATO as secret and fast as possible, special procedures with ur parliament or whatever fits the situation, and then only come out of the wood to tell the bad guys:

'Hey look! We got a pretty damn good shield now!'

Might help, too late now, good luck

But, if it's ok to take a few strikes for Finland and/or Sweden within few minutes after they make loud official application as long as they are not defeated, then who am i...

Why on Earth they, u know who i guess, bothered staging a fake operation in 1944 to go to Normandy, they should have straight away aired the date and place on BBC, and those bloody French Résistants only did odd code messages cause they are just so stupidly fond of poetry, i guess

Just like right now the world media seems to know the details of all whats being sent to Ukraine by Westerners, they should also give the dates and places of deliveries might show to the ennemy that we are really not scared of whatever they could do in return

Art of dissimulation wouldnt be reserved to the bad guys only, especially in war contexts, and can be done without breaking ur moral values, it's just tactic and strategy, and no matter how many war challenges we are being thrown in our faces it seems too 'bellow' for us to really bother

I hope we wont have to need to be more seriously tested about it to better realize, and this case, especially Finland's, will be one more test, for Russians to see till where they want to go, and for us to see how we really want to handle it, if we really want to handle it

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Hmm, the point of a whole thread is to be followed in case of any inquiries about what is meant, so, there was this:

As i had said somewhere else but put an other way:

If u are threatened by someone and u think u need a shield, dont come out of the wood to tell ur threatener:

'Hey wait! Im gonna look for a shield!'

Means, the moment they officially apply, they shouldnt be surprised if something bad happens on their territory, Finnish people are getting trained in the woods, but someone trains them how to shoot a hypersonic Russian thing?

And since an application doesnt mean being part of it, then Article 5 couldnt directly apply, right?

Then all of sudden Russia would have a wonderfull reason to strike some Western+EU countries without NATO could officially do anything in return, just a wonderfull humiliation of the kind Putin can really enjoy, just with the cost of a few missiles

Apparently a majority, but not so huge, in those countries agrees to join NATO, and amongst the opponents u can hear about, some people whoseem to be aware of such possibilities! Well, people there would be the 1st ones to be on the front line, so i guess it helps to be aware of this

I mean, instead, make everything done with NATO as secret and fast as possible, special procedures with ur parliament or whatever fits the situation, and then only come out of the wood to tell the bad guys:

'Hey look! We got a pretty damn good shield now!'

Might help, too late now, good luck

But, if it's ok to take a few strikes for Finland and/or Sweden within few minutes after they make loud official application as long as they are not defeated, then who am i...

Why on Earth they, u know who i guess, bothered staging a fake operation in 1944 to go to Normandy, they should have straight away aired the date and place on BBC, and those bloody French Résistants only did odd code messages cause they are just so stupidly fond of poetry, i guess

Just like right now the world media seems to know the details of all whats being sent to Ukraine by Westerners, they should also give the dates and places of deliveries might show to the ennemy that we are really not scared of whatever they could do in return

Art of dissimulation wouldnt be reserved to the bad guys only, especially in war contexts, and can be done without breaking ur moral values, it's just tactic and strategy, and no matter how many war challenges we are being thrown in our faces it seems too 'bellow' for us to really bother

I hope we wont have to need to be more seriously tested about it to better realize, and this case, especially Finland's, will be one more test, for Russians to see till where they want to go, and for us to see how we really want to handle it, if we really want to handle it

so your point, I think, is that they should join NATO secretly?  I don't see how that's possible.  Russia sucks, sure, but they aren't completely incompetent at espionage.  And the press in the west is even better, someone would find out.  Plus the thousands of people involved, someone is leaking even if the press or the KGB (or whatever they call it these days) fail to figure it out.

Hey, if u dont try u wont succeed, and if ure so sure at what ure doing that u can risk the lives of people that u have under ur responsibility, then good for u, good for them, and best of luck to everybody!

It's not as if there is seriously dangerous guy who is actually leading a seriously dangerous war and that would seriously like to turn the Western democracies down!

Again, when we could feel the war from closer then we were taking measures to handle the dangerosity of the war way more properly, dissimulation, surprise effect, hey it's not as if all of this really mattered in the history of War, did it??

So, dunno, maybe it's not close enough for us yet, maybe we need Finland or who knows what to realize things a bit more properly, eventually

That anyways gonna be a good test for Russia too, depending on how NATO handles the new adhesions, if ever there effectively is a gap of protection and that Russia doesnt use it, it would show them as bit more cautious about a serious confrontation with the West than what they want to show, but it's a bet that could have 'a cost'

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Hmm, again, and then maybe i think i'll have detailed my point well enough

Russia is not about 'invading' Europe, or even about 'winning' over a country to me, and thats one of the major difference with WW2, heck yes we saw how they were good at invading about 1 month ago and how they are struggling now to seize a piece of land which is supposedly culturally close at many levels, though tactically they also are apparenyly learning from their mistakes on the military level, apparently the starting point was such a mess that a bit of organization looks like some huge progress anyways

Russia is just about destroying, the most they could, and about all the History grudges they (well, he) could have, destroy materially and psychologically, he is not building anything, it's blind revenge, and we dont know yet how much blind it could become

Thats what, my 1st concern always been Finland, it ticks a lot of boxes, history with Russia, importance of the status of neutrality, lot of the Russian elite fled there few months ago, not a huge army, been very keen at quiting its historical neutrality since start of conflict, and, yeah, thats what i said from start, it has something that could counter the latest technologies Russian missiles??

Same for Sweden to a lesser extent, it's not about having a 'Battle of England', it's not engaging in a new 'front', if ever Russia manages to strike in those countries without NATO can technically do anything, part of the EU, imagine the psychological effect all over Western countries? Imagine the humiliation? Would those countries retaliate? To the nuked Russia? They really would enter in this? Then NATO would finish to take them? In order to have what they try to avoid at all cost, a direct confrontation with Russia?

That looks like a lot of hazardous questions to me

Destruction, humiliation, destabilisation so much to entertain Putin i guess

And so much about which apparently Western countries feel to be so much above that they can spare themselves to live as if a serious war was on borders and as if we were not part of the target at all

Hey so be it if so, who am i and what can i say, again, best of luck to everyone!!

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Hey, Le Monde also publishes in English now, didnt know that...

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2022/05/09/finland-wants-the-nato-accession-process-to-be-as-quick-as-possible_5982941_4.html

Personally i feel i'll kinda hold my breath from the moment they make this will to apply official till the moment they actually get protection, let's see what happens, that anyways would be a big enough test for everybody

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Besides, on the whole NATO debate, i think it wasnt smart, to say the least, from Europeans to just wait and see under the umbrella after the fall of the USSR, and maybe even before, for Americans they had this tool that nobody pushed them to withdraw, then why would they do so, the fair move would have been at least a refoundation of it under a new paradigm, especially since the pact in front of it had disapeared, could have spared us a good deal of fuel for all whats going on

France has been the only European power that became 'geostrategically conscious' after WW2, maybe one thing explaining the other, it's also been the 1st one to refuse a strategical European military alliance in 1950s, well, after 2 WW with Germans, they were kinda 'cautious', but France also been the 1st one to try to recreate some military force in Europe with Chirac, with the participation of Blair, but, well...UK?...Europe?...NATO?...and now...AUKUS?

And now here we are, u have 1 country with a big military independence at all levels, and all the costs that go with, still France, which cant do much about anything that's going on the European continent because nobody in Europe really cared about one of the most basic thing, the independence of ur own security

Putin wouldnt have the slightest thing to say about an independent European security, but the nature of NATO creates de facto of possibility of expansionism that can be at the very least used as a pretext

In short:

To NATOers: when a conflict is over put the weapons down, might help, at the very least for people not to feel threatened and later use it against u, and at the very best to eventually build trust, which doesnt mean to destroy ur weapons

To Europeans: if u let the builder of ur fence control it, then dont be surprised if u dont have a lot of control of whats going on in ur ground! And that ur neighbour care more about the fence builder than urself

'Amusingly' enough Trump policies going further would have helped Europeans to realize, maybe


Personally im pragmatic enough, whatever can help the situation as it is now, and even before the conflict, u know someone wants to invade? U think it's a bad thing? Then what about trying to prevent it instead of giving an openly green light to the invader! No?? Like proposing to Ukraine to put some troops before anything happens, yeah an umbrella, better with an other label than NATO, could have been one more occasion to do something new, better than this admirative wait and see how much a situation can get spoiled

Such a conflict would at least, hopefully, pretty much make obvious that a lot of acronymes ought to be refounded, NATO, EU, UN, and maybe others...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The British and Swedish PMs have formalised a mutual UK-Sweden defensive pact whilst on a trip to Harpsund, a clear attempt to deter the Russians from aggression during the application period. Swedish neutrality is already over - all that remains to be done is to submit a formal application in the coming weeks.

If there effectively is something like this, then i guess yeah, could do for Sweden, but then again, Finland has anything to deter anything yet...?

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Hey, if nobody there can handle the fact to push the right button for the right missiles for it to reach after the border and not in the sea, then, ok, i guess

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The British and Swedish PMs have formalised a mutual UK-Sweden defensive pact whilst on a trip to Harpsund, a clear attempt to deter the Russians from aggression during the application period. Swedish neutrality is already over - all that remains to be done is to submit a formal application in the coming weeks.

If there effectively is something like this, then i guess yeah, could do for Sweden, but then again, Finland has anything to deter anything yet...?

Johnson continued from Sweden to Finland and signed the same document with the Finnish President, a couple of hours ago.

https://twitter.com/Silvia_Amaro/status/1524427508497756160

"What it says is that in the event of a disaster, or in the event of an attack on either of us, then we will come to each other’s assistance, including with military assistance." --Boris Johnson
The Guardian

Hey, did something like this worked?

Because, well...

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russias-inter-rao-halt-power-exports-finland-due-lack-payment-2022-05-13/

Those Johnson things would have at least shown that they felt the need of something to be done all of a sudden, those guys have read that thread or something?

And, if that is the only mighty Russian reaction after all that fuss on NATO and now potentially having 1300km of it, then Russia might be really too busy right now, or doesnt dare, or, well, let's just be cautious about whatever could still happen as well

Something like a UK involvement might help to think, but what would UK take the risk of doing against Russia, it's not sure either, because then that would mean potentially directly putting NATO on the line too, and maybe they'll talk this before in case any decision had to be taken

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Biden apparently also pledged support if Russia tried anything, thats like a NATO protection already then, Nordic front would be shut with this for now

But it's really been 'amateur' day by day management, Russia actually had a gap for something here

Thats just been like Ukraine management, first we check what Russia does, then we act, not lucky for Ukraine, lucky for the Westies in the North

With this Russia also chose the perfect timing to claim that now 'West is on War' against them

The military support from US/West became so determining in that war that it's technically true, US statements also almost speaking as if it was their own forces on the ground, with an open goal to turn Russia down, fully reinforces it

Basically Russia already managed to drag 'West' down there in the target, it only belongs to them to see if they want to trigger something and when

Since the start of that conflict i think there is no good solution anyways, either Russia manages its goals and feels all mighty and tries further, or, and thats what's going on, Russia is blocked in its goals, under a lot of pressure, maybe even loses some significant stuffs, and then could become the most dangerous if it feels nothing to lose, then they would certainly prefer we all lose together

Basically it's like Hitler attacked from everywhere counting on V2s to win WW2, just that Russia already is a giant porcupine of some big last technologies V2s equiped with WMDs

It's a full conendrum and thats why it needed f***ing preventive measures before the start, and it needs some for all possible scenarios besides the balls growing and planks at doors

Hey if Johnson has read that thread to propose protection to Finland, keep a look!

Apparently for now they still try to use some time, yesterday's Lavrov statement was also clever enough, in a full troll way as usual but still, at putting it kind of as 'The West vs The World', something that can really find echoes...

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

The extortion is pretty grim (considering that Erdogan didn’t raise these concerns any earlier in the process) but I think Turkey’s “allies” will suck it up. It gives the EU more opportunities to slowly supplant NATO as the principal European defence organisation - membership probably provides enough of a deterrent to prevent a Russian attack, although membership of NATO is still a bit more credible.

Remove the sanctions, let Sweden and Finland join, then put the sanctions back. If Erdogan wants to play dirty then so should we.

Yeah, back stabbing, just what it takes to get still more dirty tricks from the tricky ones, and in this case, 'just' the one that controls the Black Sea, always somewhere in the Caucasus, and now extends influence till Middle East where the West is losing some, playing either the nationalist or Islamist cards accordingly

Being tricky and being smart arent necessarily antagonistic notions

Whats going on with all this is really making the point, all the Westies all of sudden dropping their particularities to be in the same pack, while the only non Westie of the pack is causing troubles, and thats again what Russia would desperately try to do, to put all of us in a corner in the eyes of the rest of the World

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

Yeah, isn't it hard to go forth together when u have no clue why u are together?

When u are together mostly because u are scared of something and u go to ur buddies rather than when u gather around principles that should orientate the behavior of the members within the so called 'Alliance' and of the so called 'Alliance' itself

All this goes straight at the interrogation on the nature of NATO

What is it? What is it for?

In the past, it was to get protection from the USSR, something which had global politico-economical pretentions on the whole World

Nowadays would be more to get protection 'just' from Putin, and Putin is not interested in the World, but mostly in the Russian Empire and in putting the most possible dust in the US/Western mouths

Then, logical enough that Turkey, which is not really in Putin primary targets can feel free to mess within NATO, to even play with whatever efficiency it could have, to buy some Russian weapons, to do whatever to prove its own Turkophone/Islamist Empire itself, and when u see what Turkey now does in Africa, they really try hard to extend

All this (well, sorry, but again) would go straight toward the 'Westernization' of NATO, we were not that far already but still it deepens and almost fully acknowledges it, and thus would also fully follow the current cultural global and individual trends about the 'Tribalization' of the World

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

If we're talking about the Russian Empire, remember that taking Constantinople was the Russian Emperors' biggest dream from Catherine the Great onwards...

Hey, they might have discussed it with Kirill, actually wouldnt be surprised so ^^

But anyways, yeah, Turkey has no real significant allies anywhere, then trying to mess everywhere makes sense, especially when u're a kind of geographical and cultural 'tipping area' if those words make sense in English

And, about Russia, whatever sick wet dreams are in whoever minds there, one of the things they have, and potentially in some very vicious ways, and that we have far less here, and that can really be an advantage is...patience