Why are there no leftist Christian terrorists?

[dead0man]

There are very few Christian terrorists in the first place.  There are very few "leftist" terrorists in the first place.

edit-and leftist Christians tend to not be very....enthusiastic? about their religion.

[dead0man]

So, my question is: if Jesus thought that individual followers should serve the poor, how could that same Jesus believe that a government that did little or nothing for the poor was prasieworthy?

Jesus told his followers to serve the poor, he doesn't talk about govts.  I agree with your initial point that Christians don't act very Christian, but that doesn't mean govts need to take up where bad Christians have dropped the ball.

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What economic system do you think Jesus would approve of?

[dead0man]

Wouldn't Jesus want what was best for everybody?  Do you think if we had less capitalism over the last 200 hundred years poor people today would be doing better?

[dead0man]

No, I don't think people would be doing better had there been less capitalism in the last two hundred years.  Indeed I think people would be quite markedly worse off worldwide were it not for free markets.  I am not mounting an argument against market economies or capitalism, as clearly markets tend to distribute resources more efficiently so long as they function properly, which requires lots of things to work right and lots of capitalists to compete fairly.

That's not the point of my question.  My point is that, even in capitalist countres with largely free market economies, there are sure to be those who will not have sufficient resources from the beginning to amass enough capital to get ahead, which is to say that predominantly free-market economies will have a certain population of poor people or struggling people who are not poor nor struggling by virtue of being, as the accuasion went above in this thread, "lazy" or "indolent."  So, my question is, why would anybody believe that Jesus would approve of a government that made no efforts to help such people?

Because they think the poor should be helped by charity and that govts should be limited in their power.

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He never gave any hint one way or the other.

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I doubt He would.

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He didn't say much about it.

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I've never ever made such a claim.  Of course someone calling themselves a Christian can be left leaning economically (or socially for that matter).  I'm just explaining why a Christian could have right leaning economical beliefs.

[dead0man]

I doubt capitalism would be any part of Jesus's ideal society, so the idea that Jesus was "pro-capitalism" is pretty inane. 

Agreed just as the idea that Jesus was "anti-capitalism" is pretty inane.

[dead0man]

I'm not sure I agree.  Jesus's utopian vision was probably an empathetic, collectivist society, by human behavior as opposed to government enforcement. 

Agreed.

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I don't agree.  He never, as far as I know, gave any indication which method of economy the state ran that He favored.  He wanted His followers to give all they had that they didn't need to the poor.  He never suggested the state should get into the business of telling carpenters when and what to work on or to buy all the sheep and then pay the sheppards to take care of them.  Again, as far as I know.  If He did, I'd like a cite.  If He didn't, then I don't think He cared all that much.

[dead0man]

But my argument was that his vision of a just world would entail no capitalism, so capitalism is inherently unjust.

I'm not seeing that.  Why would He have a vision of a just world.  He knew, assuming He is who He claims to be, the world would never be just. 

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I don't think He viewed it at all.  I don't think it mattered much to Him what sort of economy any future state would have.

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errrr ok

[dead0man]

I'm not seeing that.  Why would He have a vision of a just world.  He knew, assuming He is who He claims to be, the world would never be just. 

He didn't have views on just behaviors and acts that culminate in a just world...?  That goes against my understanding of most non-brimstone Christianity.

I don't think He believed a just world was possible, why would He concern Himself with it?

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Like I said, in a society that followed Jesus's teachings, there would be no need for economic competition.  Christian compassion would be economic incentive.  Servitude to God would get the juices flowing.  Am I saying that's possible?  Hell naw, I ain't even a Christian.  But to start out at least, do we agree that it's the Christian ideal fairytalebook-land?[/quote]No we don't agree there.  Jesus knew it was impossible, that's why He never brought it up.  There are always going to be people that want to sell you something and there are always going to be people that need to buy those same things (and sometimes those people will be Christians).  Basically, "society's" don't follow Christ, individuals do.  There are no places with no economic competition, there can't be.

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I disagree again.  He is a forgiving Lord.  If you just have two choices and one can be bad in certain situations and one is always bad, I don't think the big guy would have issues if you picked the former.  What else are you going to do?  Not make a choice? 

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I don't think that's true, but I suppose it would depend on the situation.


I'm not saying Jesus was pro-Capitalism and I'm not saying He would be against whatever you are arguing for here, I'm saying He didn't make a clear case either way.  I'm saying He expected different Christians to live in different economies because that's how the world worked and still works.  He wanted His followers to help the poor and helpless regardless of what the local govts did or didn't do for them.  But doing or not doing that isn't going to get you into heaven or keep you out.  I didn't learn a ton in my 21 years of Sunday School and church 3 times a week, but I did learn works are not what save you, it's faith.

[dead0man]

P.S. dead0man, sorry for how weirdly paced this morning's post was.  I was tired.

hehe no worries man.  It was fun and nobody got called any bad words...at least not yet.