U.S.A. vs The World. no nukes

[dead0man]

First off, can the US, the West and Russia use nuclear powered ships?

Do we get time to prepare, or does it start tomorrow?

We might not win, I think the first day or two of fighting would give you the answer even if it would take years to completely destroy the other side.  Civilians are going to play a large part, at least in any scenerio where the US loses.  We would be very tough nut to crack.

I'm thinking the US wins though.  Air superiority is HUGE and we'd have that, at least at first.  A long war of attrition would probably favor the world.  The rest of the West relies a great deal on the US's ability to move troops and gear around the world.  But what about Russia you say?  One of the US military's major goals for the past 50 years has been stopping Russia from getting military craft to the US.  We're are VERY good at sinking ships and shooting down air craft.  If the US can fly B2s over the other nations at will, you will stand no chance.  After your air defenses are gone, then the B52's come.  You won't like the B52s, nukes or no.

China provides the soldiers; Russia, the tanks; Japan, the kick-ass robots...

We put up a good fight, but not a great one...

But how are they going to get here?

[dead0man]

Hell, we might not even need the Army for this.  The Navy and Air Force may be able to handle the job.

How pissed are the Euros going to be when they wake up and read this thread?

[dead0man]

China provides the soldiers; Russia, the tanks; Japan, the kick-ass robots...

We put up a good fight, but not a great one...

But how are they going to get here?

"Omg china has like 1 billion people"


so what? what are they going to do? sail over in their wooden boats? LOL!

We're not the only country with a navy... sure, ours is by far the mightiest on the planet, but the combined navies of Russia/China/Britain/Germany could get enough soldiers and artillery to Mexico to mount a nearly unstoppable invasion...

Blame the Democrats for dragging their feet on that border fence.

They won't make it out of their ports 3/4's of the time. Satellites/spy planes will tell us when they start to load up their transports.  Air Craft and missiles fly very VERY fast.

The only chance they'd have is if EVERY BOAT in the world was filled with military gear and military dudes as secretly as possible and put in the water a couple of days before the magic start date AND we had no idea it was coming.  Maybe.  But even if they manage to get 10 MILLION (and that would be an amazing feat), armed dudes on our soil, how far do you think they'd get?  We'd just bomb them here.  Have you ever seen a daisy cutter in action?  Ground Armies are worthless if you don't have air superiority.

Hell, we might not even need the Army for this.  The Navy and Air Force may be able to handle the job.

How pissed are the Euros going to be when they wake up and read this thread?

Well in that case maybe so.

But in hand to hand man for man we would get stomped back into the earth.

Why on Earth would we fight that way?

[dead0man]

If China gets its anti-satellite missiles...

But yeah, the US might be able to just launch enough mid and long range missiles to destroy a lot of ships quickly

Which satellites do they shoot down?  The GPS ones?  I don't think they can (they are REALLY high).  The "spy" ones?  Good luck, God only knows how many we have up and where they are.

This is one of the side benifits to our military budget being so freaking huge.  We win all the forum wars of imagination.

[dead0man]

The world wins no doubt. We should remember that we have been selling all our wonderful technology around the world, and the russians have been doing the same. The world will just have way more resources than we will in the end.

Name the technology.  Explain HOW they beat us.  What resources? 

Yes we sell tech, but we don't sell the BEST tech.  Some nations come up with their own tech that is better than ours, but just because you have a better rifle or missles doesn't mean dick if you can't do anything with it.

[dead0man]

The world wins no doubt. We should remember that we have been selling all our wonderful technology around the world, and the russians have been doing the same. The world will just have way more resources than we will in the end.

Name the technology.  Explain HOW they beat us.  What resources? 

Yes we sell tech, but we don't sell the BEST tech.  Some nations come up with their own tech that is better than ours, but just because you have a better rifle or missles doesn't mean dick if you can't do anything with it.

Resources as in everthing??? You do need money and wealth for war. As for technology, we may have the best but it only goes so far. Also it depends on what constitutes a "victory". It is just more plausible to see the world defeating America than the world being overrun. How would that even be possible?

What resources would the US need though?  We have well more than enough oil to run a war for a long time.

"winning" might be a difficult task if we must kill everybody else on the planet.  Still, we aren't losing.  Whomever controls the sky and the sea wins this fight and I've yet to see anything that gives the world the advantage in either.

[dead0man]

Anyway as others have stated very well above, air power and military transport capability are hugely in the american favor.  In the short term the US would win very decisively.  The question for the overall win would be whether, without nukes, we could prevent the rest of the world from eventually building military hardware and mobilizing to their full potential (which could be of course overwhelming).

Are we going to relax while they do this?  What advantage would a bombed to sh**t world have the second go around that they didn't have the first time?

[dead0man]

Yeah...or release a super bug that is easily beatable with modern medicine and let the chips fall where they may.  Even that wouldn't wipe out all non-Ameircans though (and would likely wipe out a lot of Americans). 

But yeah, if winning required killing everybody else, we would probably never fully win.

[dead0man]

A.South American countries would need to use the waters to transport troops to NA.  There is a huge chunk of Panama that you couldn't transport troops and equipment through.

B.You're discounting air superiority.  On the other hand, I may be discounting the absolute numbers of aircraft the world will have at their disposal the first several days of the war.  On the other hand, much of that aircraft rely heavily upon US satellites and other tech/intel that they suddenly would no longer have access to.  If the air shield can hold for a few days, we should be alright.  The longer it lasts, the better off the US becomes.  Unless of course....

C.We run out of some resources.  I can't think of any and nobody has given specifics.  What are they?  It wouldn't be oil.  And even if there are some, what's to stop us from going and getting it?  (unless of course we lose the air superiority war in the opening days, in which case we won't have time to run out of any resources)

[dead0man]

Why are you so sure America will control the skies and seas? There are huge armies out there like the Europeans, Chinese, Russians and Indians with lots and lots of planes and ships, and this is 4 countries/regions. Imagine what the whole firepower of the world coudl do. We have the best technology no doubt, but its not as if these armies are pieces of sh**t or anything like that. If this was 1950 then America would have a good chance of winning, but today the world is a different place. Your opinion/ignorance of it is hilarious. Anyways I don't think the world or America would win in the end. I think only a religion such as Buddhism can win from a scenario such as this.

Military expenditures by nation
1  United States               713,100,000,000 2009
—  European Union Total 311,920,000,000 2007
2  France                          61,571,330,000 2008-2009
3  United Kingdom            61,280,890,000 2008
4  PRC                               61,090,000,000 2008
5  Russia                          50,000,000,000 2009
6  Japan                           48,860,000,000 2008
7  Germany                      45,930,000,000 2008
8  Italy                             40,050,000,000 2008
9  Saudi Arabia                31,050,000,000 2008
10  Turkey                       30,936,000,000 2008


 World Total                1,470,000,000,000


The world's only chance is air superiority in the opening couple of days by using extremely overwhelming force.  I think the US air shield is strong enough to win that.  Getting past the Navy will be hard.  Getting past the SAM sites that will quickly encircle our nation will be hard.  Getting past the thousandsF16s,F15s and F22s will be impossible.  But lets say a few squadrons sneak in amid the chaos and bomb...what?, a couple of runways/infrastructure?*  They won't make it back.  The US Navy is far beyond the rest of the world.  The USAF is far beyond the rest of the world.  The US Army is battlehardened and there is a nation of potential NCOs that have gotten out in the last few years that would join right back if we were fighting for our survival.  Don't get me started on the Jarheads. 

You're right, this isn't 1950.  Everybody was much closer then.  It ain't close today.




*What they bomb I suppose would depend on the stipulations of our "game".  If it's a fight to the death, then they would bomb the best military target they can hit.  If it's a fight to surrender, they'd still probably hit the military target, but a population center wouldn't be out of the question.

[dead0man]

And can also be bombed by B2s there as well.

If the world doesn't take the skies in the opening days, the world doesn't stand a chance.  As far as I can tell.  If further evidence is brought forth I could change my mind.

[dead0man]

I was assuming a last man standing kind of thing.  It would take years of course either way.  Shorter if our aim was just to force govts to surrender and play ball (and also assuming our answer to revolt was very, very 'stern').

Either way, controlling the Western Hemisphere would be the likely first step and it shouldn't be challenging (other than those first couple of days admittedly).

I think you're forgeting the play of satellites and spy planes in war.  The "world" wouldn't be able to build up forces, we'd see it, and bomb it.  The longer it lasts, the better off the US would be.