Should Biden and Putin agree to end the Ukraine war as a stalemate?

[dead0man]

Biden's opinion on the matter doesn't mean that much and that's obvious to any thinking person.  Or really even dummies can figure that out, unless you think the only thing giving Ukraine hope is aid from the US and that's a silly thing to think and just shows you aren't paying attention.  Ukraine is going to fight on no matter what happens, especially after it's been established how weak Russia actually is.  It will be long, it will be hard, but they will fight on without US support.  Which is why we should have given Ukraine more and better gear when the war started, it would have saved a lot of lives of Ukrainian civilians.  We seem to not want Ukraine to lose, but also don't really want to see them win either.  That's not cool.  I'm not sure what the goal of these weasels are, but I know how to spot them.  Ask them if it would be ok for Ukraine to invade Russian territory, if they say no, they don't want Ukraine to actually win.

[dead0man]

Biden's opinion on the matter doesn't mean that much and that's obvious to any thinking person.  Or really even dummies can figure that out, unless you think the only thing giving Ukraine hope is aid from the US and that's a silly thing to think and just shows you aren't paying attention.  Ukraine is going to fight on no matter what happens, especially after it's been established how weak Russia actually is.  It will be long, it will be hard, but they will fight on without US support.  Which is why we should have given Ukraine more and better gear when the war started, it would have saved a lot of lives of Ukrainian civilians.  We seem to not want Ukraine to lose, but also don't really want to see them win either.  That's not cool.  I'm not sure what the goal of these weasels are, but I know how to spot them.  Ask them if it would be ok for Ukraine to invade Russian territory, if they say no, they don't want Ukraine to actually win.

2 points :


1. We obviously wouldn’t do this right now

2. The likely deal we would broker but Ukraine has said they wouldn’t  is 2021 borders and that is cause our own military does not think it’s realistic to restore 2013 borders . If our military thinks it’s realistic Ukraine can restore 2013 borders then we wouldn’t broker that deal but if they still believe they can’t , then we probably would.

The US military knows more than any other military when it comes to what is or what isn’t possible in a conventional war so we obviously should just go with what they tell us here.

maybe, but:
1.the US military ain't perfect at guessing who will win a war
2.even if they guess correctly that Ukraine will never gain all their territory back or that the costs in blood and coin far outweigh the gains doesn't mean Ukraine would or should stop fighting

The US (Biden or the military) get no vote on when this war ends.  The Ukrainian people and Putin are the only two entities that matter (and the Russian people to a much smaller extent because while they have to power to make Putin stop, they don't want him to, don't think they can or are too scared to try, so they have made themselves irrelevant...again).  Putin apologists in the West need to stop trying to convince their friends to stop supporting Ukraine and start sending messages to Putin if they want the war to end, but we all know that's not the direction information flows.

[dead0man]

Our foreign policy decisions should be made on what our military thinks is realistically possible. So my belief on aid is it should be given to achieve the goals our military thinks is realistically possible and the current discussion over it is moronic as aid is a tool to be used to achieve certain goals we set.

our goal should be victory for Ukraine, and we should give whatever aid is necessary to achieve that goal.  I guarantee that the US military believes Ukraine can win if given the proper resources, so I agree with you that we should give Ukraine what the US military thinks it needs to win.  If we had done that from the start, there would be a lot more living Ukrainian civilians right now and Ukraine would be far closer to ending this war (if it hadn't already).  We should correct this ongoing mistake as soon as possible.  There is no excuse for Ukraine to not be 100% covered with anti-missile systems, this is a great failure of the west.  Every train station and apartment building the Orcs destroy is another embarrassment we leave for future historians to shake their heads about.

[dead0man]

Our foreign policy decisions should be made on what our military thinks is realistically possible. So my belief on aid is it should be given to achieve the goals our military thinks is realistically possible and the current discussion over it is moronic as aid is a tool to be used to achieve certain goals we set.

our goal should be victory for Ukraine, and we should give whatever aid is necessary to achieve that goal.  I guarantee that the US military believes Ukraine can win if given the proper resources, so I agree with you that we should give Ukraine what the US military thinks it needs to win.  If we had done that from the start, there would be a lot more living Ukrainian civilians right now and Ukraine would be far closer to ending this war (if it hadn't already).  We should correct this ongoing mistake as soon as possible.  There is no excuse for Ukraine to not be 100% covered with anti-missile systems, this is a great failure of the west.  Every train station and apartment building the Orcs destroy is another embarrassment we leave for future historians to shake their heads about.

I’d argue 2021 Borders is a Ukrainian victory and is certainly a Russian defeat. That result would mean :

1. Russia’s military capabilities was shown to be far far weaker then ours

2. Russia’s economy will have gotten far far weaker

3. 2021 Borders Ukraine would be completely westernized


So this is still a massive loss for Russia and a major win for us and our interests for sure .

1 and 2 are true whether Ukraine gives up land or not and a longer war makes them even more true.  3 as well, but that depends on what you mean.

If Biden does what you suggest and pressures Ukraine into giving up land for peace*, would you be willing to let Ukraine in NATO (assuming they fit all the normal criteria) even if Russia says they'll be angry if we do?  I know a lot of your party mates are way too far gone (you can tell because they parrot stupid things like Russia had to attack Ukraine to defend itself from western aggression) to ever accept such a thing.




*has giving up land for peace ever worked in the long or even medium term?  For anyone?  I guess it kind of worked for Israel with regards to Egypt and Jordan, not so much Gaza or Lebanon.