The Left and Free Speech

[dead0man]

The Heckler's Veto is 80% as bad as govt censorship.  Self censorship out of fear of the Heckler is worse than either.  Self censorship out of actual fear is understandable, but people with guts should still stand up to it.


Nobody is saying you can't disagree with a particular thought, but shouting down somebody in their own house* is wrong.  Starting sh**t in their home is wrong.  (Watching a little sh**t head get knocked out by an old man is pretty awesome though...and I, like everybody else, would like to see more of that.)



*if you rent a place, it's "yours" for the time you rented it.  Yes, the owners are the real owners and can...ahem....trump you when it comes down to it, but the renters clearly have more right to be there than some assholes trying to shout the renters down.

[dead0man]

Protesting is a form of free speech, not a form of interference with speech.

Indeed.  Right up until it interferes with someone else's speech.  This isn't hard to understand.

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Agreed.

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You have no 1st Amendment Rights in another person's house.

Lets try a thought exercise (I know some of you guys hate exercise, sorry, I promise you won't sweat).  Lets say the shoes were on the other feet.  Lets say Sanders or Hillary (whichever you prefer) was holding a rally.  Lets say Trump supporters were hassling the Sanders supporters.  Screaming profanities, being the little bitches that they are.  Getting inside the place, starting lots of shenanigans.  So much so that Sanders/Hillary have to cancel the event.  I know that I'd say the Trump supporters were wrong, you can't go into some other person's house and start sh**t.

I don't like Trump, he is an asshole.  And so are you if you go into his event and act like a dick or if you support such behavior.

[dead0man]

You have no 1st Amendment Rights in another person's house.

Uh... You may want to take a Constitutional Law class. Also, brownshirts incoming, ITT.

Perhaps, but I'm not wrong about this.  Maybe we should take it together?  

And it would be a pretty sh**tty country that would let people talk sh**t on some on other person's land if the owners don't want them there talking sh**t.  Why would you think it would be otherwise or would have anything to do with brownshirts?  You may need a remedial class or three first.

[dead0man]

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You're not getting it chief.  You're reading it the way you want to read it, not the what it's actually saying.

[dead0man]

That would be nice, but this one isn't really confusing at all.  I understand your fellow travelers have abandoned this thread, but maybe you could pm one and ask why you're wrong here.

[dead0man]

But the argument is quite frequently made that protests erode the right to free speech by trying to shut it down.

Is it?

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Of course protest by itself doesn't erode any other person's right to speak freely, but when it crosses the line to violence or threats of violence if speech the protesters don't like isn't shut down it becomes a problem.

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I don't give a sh**t about sides.  Which was the point of my exercise above.  You can protest all you want at an event, more power to you.  But when you start sh**t in the hopes of not allowing another person to speak, I don't care if it's Trump, Bernie, the Klan, BDS or the Flat Earthers, if they rent a place or are invited to speak, you can't shut down their speech.  You're free to stand outside on the sidewalk and explain why they're idiots if you want, you should be encouraged to do that even, but you can't shut 'em down.

Unless it's in your front yard, then you can call the cops.  If they are threatening you at all, you have the right to use violence. 

Oh, and if you're a college student, the auditorium isn't your home.  Neither is the quad.

[dead0man]

Sneaking inside and the ensuing shenanigans that got the event shut down.  I admittedly don't know much about the event in question, I'm speaking more in generalities here.  If your goal is to shut your political enemy up, then you're wrong.  Period.  If they're wrong, show us why they're wrong.

[dead0man]

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find someone claiming as much..at the event or here, but again, I only have a very shallow understanding of what happened at the Trump event that got canceled because of the shenanigans.  Don't really care, don't like Trump or his people.  I'm talking about how a few people on the left don't want to let people they disagree with voice their opinion, and how many others on the left knee jerk defend those asshats.

[dead0man]

Again, don't really care about the event.  Trump isn't the only person to be shut down by left leaning types.  You have a problem with this.

(and if we're going to do this, and I doubt we are, but if we do, can we please skip the "prove it" part and the "but your side does it too" part?)

[dead0man]

Oh I can back it up, all day if need be.  It won't change anything of course.  Your side has a problem with free speech.  This is bad and shouldn't be defended.

Several examples:
that time BLM made Bernie leave without speaking
just this week, CIA director speech shut down at Penn
one of my favorites....black transgendered woman and LGBTQ activist scared away by lefties because a Jew invited her


Seriously, all day.  It's embarrassingly easy to find.  And doing the searching it becomes quickly clear that many on your side fully acknowledge and understand that the problem exists and are trying to fight it.

[dead0man]

Sorry, you're right.  I'm poisoning the well a bit.  It's just that these always go the same way.

[dead0man]

Could this be part of the reason the left feels the need to defend Islam?  Both groups have no problem shutting down speech they don't approve of.  What else do they have to bond over?  Their hatred of whitey?

[dead0man]

I acknowledge (and have acknowledged) that they are a small fraction of students/young people.  I'm much more concerned with the people that feel the need to defend the soft jerks, especially the administrators that pacify them.  If somebody is scared of graffiti that reads "Trump '16" they need need help, not somebody in a position of power....affirming? verifying? there is a word, and I can not think of it, their fear.  It's not like there is a history of Trump supporters blowing things up or murdering random "under privileged" college students.


edit-oh, and pointing and laughing, a lot of it is just for the giggles and sharing of the giggles with like minded people