McCain's citizenship

[Franzl]

No Act of Congress can be used to amend the Constitution. Neither can a Senate Resolution passed in April.

There are only two ways to settle this argument: A decision of the Supreme Court or an Amendment to the Constitution.

In my opinion, McCain is not a natural born citizen because in order to get his citizenship he had to go through a naturalization procedure. His naturalization was unquestionable and in accordance with a swift procedure, but it was naturalization nonetheless, and that makes him ineligible.

I am not saying that in case he gets elected he should not become President. I am saying that it would be contrary to the Constitution. There is yet time to resolve this once and for all. There should be a petition to the Supreme Court to give a definitive answer on this issue. If not, then who is to stop other naturalized citizens (Schwarzenegger) from running for President and becoming President?

Incorrect.

Your comparison with Schwarzenegger is completely off the mark. Schwarzenegger was born abroad to foreign parents.

And please tell me what "naturalization" procedure McCain had to go through.

 

[Franzl]

My interpretation of "natural born citizen" is having US citizenship at birth, which can be obtained by:

a.) being born in the United States
b.) having at least one American parent, regardless of place of birth. Nothing in the constitution names "place of birth" as a requirement.

So McCain is a natural-born by default, unless the Supreme Court rules otherwise. Not the other way around, as you claim.

[Franzl]

If McCain is not a "natural-born cititzen", then what is he exactly? Is/was he technically an immigrant?

In my opinion, he is an immigrant. He was naturalized expeditiously because his parents are/were US citizens.

About the other example, the extreme one, yes, that child too would be an immigrant and barred from running for President.

I agree that this is ridiculous, but such is the meaning of Article II, Section 1, Paragraph V of the Constitution. So, I see only two solutions:

1) The better one, but for which there isn't enough time left - Amendment to the Constitution
2) The alternative one, but with a risk of an outcome that would disgruntle 90% of people - Ruling of the Supreme Court

"naturalized" = not a citizen at birth

Because you automatically do become a citizen if your parent(s) are American, the place of birth is irrelevant.

[Franzl]

"naturalized" = not a citizen at birth

McCain was not a US citizen at birth. He was citizen of Panama. Natural born citizen of Panama.

Because you automatically do become a citizen if your parent(s) are American, the place of birth is irrelevant.

You become a citizen automatically, but after a certain procedure and you are not a US citizen before you become a citizen of some other country, unless you are born on the premises of a US Embassy.

Not necessarily, not every country gives you citizenship because you were born there (most countries do not), for your information.

Not that it's the least bit relevant....

[Franzl]

McCain was born in the Canal Zone, which was not a part of Panama back then.

Even if it had been, I don't think it would be relevant.

[Franzl]

The only one debating here is you.

I don't dispute that. It seems futile to continue debating since hardly anyone understands what I'm talking about.

You don't know what you're talking about.

^^^^^^^^^

precisely

[Franzl]

Constitution stipulates that only natural born citizen can become President. Nowhere in the Constitution is this term "natural born citizen" further defined (or mentioned). That opens room for interpretation. My interpretation is that a natural born citizen is citizen of the US at birth.

And that is absolutely correct, but you don't seem to understand the meaning of "citizen at birth"

[Franzl]

Constitution stipulates that only natural born citizen can become President. Nowhere in the Constitution is this term "natural born citizen" further defined (or mentioned). That opens room for interpretation. My interpretation is that a natural born citizen is citizen of the US at birth.

And that is absolutely correct, but you don't seem to understand the meaning of "citizen at birth"

The U.S. Code gives citizenship at birth to anyone with two American parents.

I believe one parent is sufficient. After all, I only have an American mother, my father is German. I was automatically a dual citizen.

[Franzl]

Citizens at birth are only those who are born in the US, because their birth certificate is issued by a US authority, while other US citizens who can be called citizens at birth according to new laws are in fact naturalized citizens. Again, the term used in a recent law (citizen at birth) obviously intended as a means of circumventing the Constitution can have no legal consequences on the condition for eligibility of President.

I'm now convinced that you understand absolutely nothing about nationality and citizenship.