Obama backs mosque near ground zero

[Franzl]

http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/article_ea778048-17db-5d2d-a8a5-49a7c0134d4f.html

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Now if this isn't proof he's a Muslim... Seriously though, I'm somewhat surprised he's willing to be so "direct" in public.

[Franzl]

Yeah, and there being a mosque already 4 blocks away sort of shows how silly this all is

Well of course it's silly....both the provocation that is wanting a mosque at that particular location....but even more so the socalled freedom loving conservatives that want to deny basic constitutional rights.

It's actually kind of sad this is even seriously being debated....but I am legitimately surprised that Obama is giving such a clear statement here.

[Franzl]

IIRC, didn't it just turn out that the Cordoba Initiative or whatever they call themselves don't actually own the land where they want to build the mosque?

Possible....I haven't really been following this, but that's an entirely different issue than what appears to be the "debate" in public.

[Franzl]

Who would have thunk that the Democrats would be on the side of private property rights and Republicans for state intervention?  [besides me]

These are the same Republicans who are willing to take a crap on the constitution by repealing the 14th amendment

Ugh, I don't support repealing the 14th amendment....but that argument is garbage. It's quite reasonable to AMEND the Constitution through the proper procedure. It's perfectly sound. Now wanting to deny basic Constitutional rights without seeking the proper amendments.....that'S a different story.

[Franzl]

It's obviously idiotic to think Obama is a Muslim....but I seriously don't understand why so many people think it would be a problem even if it were true.

[Franzl]

Good for him, he and Bloomberg clearly have the moral high ground here.

That said, I think it's a sad reflection on the state of American society that the President defending religious freedom is considered controversial.

Mind you, I'm not singling out the United States on the xenophobia thing - Europe's just as Islamophobic, and it's a problem all throughout the "west".

I'm not really sure the US is any more liberal on Islam than most of Western Europe....it's just that the Constitution makes it extremely hard to actually act on prejudice. I wouldn't be surprised if the referendum in Switzerland had enough votes to pass in the U.S. too, theoretically....it's just that it could never happen (at least a binding referendum that would actulaly have that result).

Yeah you can legitimately complain about how hard it is to change the Constitution...and it can have its disadvantages....but this is a clear case where we can truly be grateful that it is this hard to change.

[Franzl]

The only reasonable argument against this (morally, not legally) would be if they intentionally did this to provoke a reaction. I have yet to see any evidence that this is true, and really, you can't even see it from ground zero.

It really pisses me off that there are so few mainstream economic conservatives that aren't xenophobic/hyper-religious.

I personally think it is pretty clearly a provocation....which doesn't affect their rights of course.

[Franzl]

The only reasonable argument against this (morally, not legally) would be if they intentionally did this to provoke a reaction. I have yet to see any evidence that this is true, and really, you can't even see it from ground zero.

It really pisses me off that there are so few mainstream economic conservatives that aren't xenophobic/hyper-religious.

I personally think it is pretty clearly a provocation....which doesn't affect their rights of course.

Respectfully disagree.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/05/26/2010-05-26_the_truth_about_the_mosque_the_leader_of_proposed_muslim_center_near_ground_zero.html

That does provide a different perspective, indeed.

[Franzl]

This is not a business.

All churches are businesses.....with tax exempt status.

[Franzl]

3 Reasons the “Ground Zero Mosque” Debate Makes No Sense

Reason three is flawed. The First Amendment gives you a right to practice, it gives you no such right to practice it where you want.

And you claim to love freedom?

[Franzl]

3 Reasons the “Ground Zero Mosque” Debate Makes No Sense

Reason three is flawed. The First Amendment gives you a right to practice, it gives you no such right to practice it where you want.

Fan of free speech zones?

And guess who gets to define where 1st amendment rights apply! That's right, the government! Oops, the government is only bad when it does stuff you dislike....oops.

[Franzl]

So do you oppose putting pornography stores near elementary schools?

No, of course not....why would that be a problem? You don't have to sell the pornography to an underage person.