Whoopi says having abortions is a painful and tough thing that Republicans don't get

[T'Chenka]

Any abortion is always a tragedy.

Hot take: if the fetus is already dead or is guaranteed to be dead before birth, and the life of the mother is at risk, it isn't a tragedy.

[T'Chenka]

Any abortion is always a tragedy.

Hot take: if the fetus is already dead or is guaranteed to be dead before birth, and the life of the mother is at risk, it isn't a tragedy.

I mean… it still kind of is… especially if the pregnancy was wanted.

I would counter that the tragedy has already occurred and is in the rearview mirror, in that scenario, and now the abortion is a good thing in the present.

[T'Chenka]

What hard facts do you have to say that a fetus isn't a living human being? To say that it's not a human being because it hasn't reached an arbitrary threshold of development is a moral argument, not a scientific one. Life begins at conception. Stages of development don't determine whether or not something belongs to a particular species.

You could also under this definition call an amputated leg a living human being.

Um...no? Find me an amputated human leg that continues to develop, gains new functions, and grows with time...

Continuing to develop, gain new functions and grow over time is not an accurate definition of a living human being. Some living human beings are 60 years old, and will no longer gain new functions or grow over time / develop. If you hook the amputated human leg up to something that will pump blood the correct type of oxygenated blood in and out of it, it will stay alive, at least, for a while. So it's living, has skin cells that will divide (create new cells) over time, and isn't required to gain new functions or grow or develop.

Anyways, my point with this whole leg that was that "it's the same species therefore it's a human" was a bad argument.

[T'Chenka]

Any abortion is always a tragedy.

Hot take: if the fetus is already dead or is guaranteed to be dead before birth, and the life of the mother is at risk, it isn't a tragedy.

No, it still is, but the difference is that the tragedy has already happened in those cases before the abortion or abortion-like procedure (because what "counts as" abortion in these edge cases is in part a rhetorical choice) is even on the table.

Exactly. A tragedy HAS occured (past tense), but now the "abortion" itself in the present is not a tragedy at all.

[T'Chenka]

Anyway, I remember less than a decade ago when "abortion is a difficult and sensitive decision that few if any women take lightly" was the sort of thing that one observed as common ground in The Abortion Debate, not yet another occasion for attempting to one-up or own one's opponents in that debate. I'm not accusing Whoopi of doing that, but lots and lots of people in this thread clearly are and I find that disturbing.

The fact that the debate is so contentious with no clear evidence-based or logic-based answer in sight after decades is probably a sign that banning abortion or making abortion mandatory should be totally off the table, and each individual should have a right to make a decision for themselves, without the government forcing them to do one thing or the other.