Obama backs mosque near ground zero

[The Vorlon]

I guess this one boils down to what is"legal" versus what is respectful and tolerant of others.

If I bought a piece of property next to one of the Nazi death camps it would be "legal" to build a educational exhibit highlighting all the wonderful achievements of Adolf Hitler (Autobahns, national health care, expanded support for the arts, etc...) but it would certainly be deeply, massively, hurtfully,  and profoundly insensitive to do so....

If the true objective of those wishing to build this mosque is indeed to build bridges to others, this is a strange way of doing so. -

Legally, they have no obligation to do so, but at the very least they have a moral obligation to the very highest degree of transparency and openness if their intentions are what they say they are.

[The Vorlon]

If I bought a piece of property next to one of the Nazi death camps it would be "legal" to build a educational exhibit highlighting all the wonderful achievements of Adolf Hitler (Autobahns, national health care, expanded support for the arts, etc...) but it would certainly be deeply, massively, hurtfully,  and profoundly insensitive to do so....

Cordoba House is the antithesis of al Qaeda's views and approach to Islam, not a monument to its ideals or an explanation of the good things al Qaeda accomplished. Islam is not defined by what al Qaeda did, nor should you cheer on the effort to crush or marginalize moderate Islam by misrepresenting Cordoba House. Osama bin Laden would bomb it if he could. I doubt Hitler would shut down a museum dedicated to his glory.

Question to you......

Given the totality of the situation, do you think the proposed location for the mosque is insensitive to the legitimate pain felt by 9/11 survivors, New York, and indeed much of the nation?

[The Vorlon]

If I bought a piece of property next to one of the Nazi death camps it would be "legal" to build a educational exhibit highlighting all the wonderful achievements of Adolf Hitler (Autobahns, national health care, expanded support for the arts, etc...) but it would certainly be deeply, massively, hurtfully,  and profoundly insensitive to do so....

Cordoba House is the antithesis of al Qaeda's views and approach to Islam, not a monument to its ideals or an explanation of the good things al Qaeda accomplished. Islam is not defined by what al Qaeda did, nor should you cheer on the effort to crush or marginalize moderate Islam by misrepresenting Cordoba House. Osama bin Laden would bomb it if he could. I doubt Hitler would shut down a museum dedicated to his glory.

Also...

If Cordoba House represents moderate Islam, transparency with respect to the sources of funding, the leadership behind construction, etc, should not be a problem - indeed would be totally consistent with with the teachings of "Islam" - a religion of peace...

yes?

[The Vorlon]

 I do think people like Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich are acting out of political expediency and because they see an opportunity to gin up support for fundraising, not because they are suffering emotional pain.

Almost certainly true....

That being said...

Do you think the Cordoba Project (look up "Cordoba" in the context of Islamic History BTW) and in light of all the points you raise, do you not think it would be a good idea for them to extend an olive branch of enhanced transparency and outreach to address the concerns being expressed......?

The best way to combat misconceptions is openness and transparency....

If their are questions, answer the questions....

[The Vorlon]

If I bought a piece of property next to one of the Nazi death camps it would be "legal" to build a educational exhibit highlighting all the wonderful achievements of Adolf Hitler (Autobahns, national health care, expanded support for the arts, etc...) but it would certainly be deeply, massively, hurtfully,  and profoundly insensitive to do so....

This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts I have read lately. And I would have least expected it from you, since everybody here seems to hold you in very high regard.

You have just now equated Al Qaeda with Islam at large which is pretty disgusting, and coincidentally, exactly what the extremists want. They want a holy war and a depressingly high amount of people in America (and apparently also Canada) want to help them achieve their goal.

Now if they were building a mosque near ground zero where they had exhibits about how Al Qaeda is helping poor people in Pakistan and Afghanistan, then you would have a point. When you group in Islam with Al Qaeda like that, it's the same as saying that any celebration of German culture near the concentration camps is insensitive.

Perhaps a bad metaphor....

let me try again....

Back in the 80s I helped a group of people who were trying to stage a gay rights march get a permit, put in place security, etc....  I was living in California at the time, and the local municipal officials seemed to be less than helpful in what should have been a routine bureaucratic matter.

One of the things I very, very, very strongly urged the main organizers to do for the march was to tone it down, and avoid as many of the more, um, er, ah, colorful elements that these parades often tended to include.  Sure they had a "right" to present a number of very colourful things for public display, but why?

My argument was roughly analogous to what I would tell the Cordoba mosque people if I had a chance... why offend people if you don't have to?

If the purpose is to build bridges, then talk to the people you might offend, try to understand their position, reach out, and above all be open and transparent in what you do.

For some people to feel hurt by the prospect of a mosque near ground zero is not a crazy or entirely lunatic notion - and the people who feel a mosque may not be appropriate deserve to be reached out to, and to have their feelings honored, and to be engaged into the process to try to build bridges between the various parties - Calling them racists, xenophobes, or similar names hardly serves the purpose of reconciliation and brotherhood.

[The Vorlon]

And hopefully people will learn to better differentiate between Islam and the radical elements within it.

Islam is a complex matter.

There are many places in the world where "mainstream" Islam is indeed very radical.

The madrassa (Islamic schools) in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc routinely teach that the USA is the devil and should be destroyed, and the Wahhabism promoted/financed on a fairly global scale by the Saudis teaches jihad as an intrinsic element of faith.

Many have raised the Timothy McVeigh analogy saying McVeigh was a catholic, we should not condemn catholics, etc...

This analogy is valid conceptually, but is in error quantitatively.

The percentage of Roman Catholics being taught by the Catholic Church to blow up public building is, well, basically zero - The number of children in Islamic schools being taught to hate America and the west is very substantial, not a majority, but far more than a tiny fringe.

The core issue that needs to addressed is actually not one of religion however, it is the quality of Governance in many Islamic nations. - The USA, Israel, The west, Christians, all make an easy scapegoat for the pathetic living conditions and in many of these nations.

[The Vorlon]

So what do I think we should do? Well, first of all we have to stay in Afghanistan for the long haul, though it's more of a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation.

Former Senator Fritz Hollings once had a great quote about the US getting involved, I believe at the time he was talking about Beirut:

"It we get involved it will probably be a disaster, if we don't get involved it will definitely be a disaster...."

A sub-optimal set of  choices, to say the least