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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« on: November 19, 2008, 03:53:55 PM »

I guess this sort of reflects the rebuke of the neo-con movement. Then again, I wonder why I neo-con did so poorly against a lib in the Military vote.
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2008, 02:07:44 PM »

The only real difference from Nationalists and Neo-cons is not really policy, but the reasons for such policy. The second Iraq war is definately a neo-con position. The support for the first was simply an interventionalist position.

Not committing on a two-state solution is the opposite of being an interventionist, isn't it?  And not negotiating with foreign leaders who disagree with us is now neocon as well?
Yes and yes. It shows that you are more interested in propagating your ideology and than promoting national security. So, in a sense, it is very Trotskyite. Making sure that Israel has the ability to hold on to its most productive and historical territories isn't Trotskyite though...it just is common sense to give arms-length support to a strong trade ally with Europe, which is a strong trade ally with us. Also, it allows to help keep the Middle East divided.
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2008, 11:18:20 AM »


McCain was never an interventionist, though he's always been a nationalist.  Defending Kuwait (an ally) isn't a neocon position, since there were many democrats who also supported the Gulf War.  SDI was a national self-defense program, which isn't neoconservative.  Kosovo was a NATO exercise in order to bring peace to the region and stop the triggering of a much larger war.  NATO was to administer a ceasefire and protect the peace.  I don't think you would call Bill Clinton a neocon.  The Iran song was a joke and not a policy position.  If by Russophobe you mean he's against Russia, I believe you could say most politicians are with the exception of Bush.  Israel/Syria was more of an issue about Lebanon than peace between the two nations.  McCain did not say that he was against peace talks, but that he wasn't supportive of them either.  However, there is no way the US could stop peace talks from happening if the two nations chose to do so.  Not committing on a two-state solution is the opposite of being an interventionist, isn't it?  And not negotiating with foreign leaders who disagree with us is now neocon as well?

No, McCain isn't a neocon.  He's just a plain ol' nationalist like we had back in the 50s and 60s.

Not everybody who holds some of the above views is a neocon, but all are consistent with neoconservative ideology. And I forgot to mention his idea of a league of Democracies, which is consistent with neoconservatism as well. Don't like insitutions? That's okay, create new ones!

That's VERY neo-conservative.
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