What will be the status of Abortion in the year 2115? (user search)
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  What will be the status of Abortion in the year 2115? (search mode)
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Author Topic: What will be the status of Abortion in the year 2115?  (Read 4038 times)
Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« on: June 05, 2017, 12:31:21 PM »

The Same way people view slavery today will be similar to how abortion will be viewed as later

While I disagree with this on so many levels, it is definitely interesting to look back at the beginning of the pro-life movement.  It's supporters absolutely branded themselves as the ideological descendants of the abolitionists, arguing that the characterization of fetuses as less than human and undeserving of full rights was eerily similar to how proponents of slavery spoke of Blacks ("Northern Republicans care so much about these slaves but couldn't care less about starving Irish immigrants in NYC" isn't a dramatically different criticism in style than "Republicans are pro-life until the baby leaves the womb, then they don't care").

Again, I do not adhere to the comparison.  At all.  But it's worth noting that that's how they felt.
Many still argue it that way.

It wasn't quite as "in" for Democratic partisans to push the party-switch narrative back then, so I think it was a more respected comparison.

Was it always that the Republicans were the pro-life and the Democrats were the pro-choice party? I know that by 1984, that was the case.
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2017, 12:07:33 PM »

The Same way people view slavery today will be similar to how abortion will be viewed as later

While I disagree with this on so many levels, it is definitely interesting to look back at the beginning of the pro-life movement.  It's supporters absolutely branded themselves as the ideological descendants of the abolitionists, arguing that the characterization of fetuses as less than human and undeserving of full rights was eerily similar to how proponents of slavery spoke of Blacks ("Northern Republicans care so much about these slaves but couldn't care less about starving Irish immigrants in NYC" isn't a dramatically different criticism in style than "Republicans are pro-life until the baby leaves the womb, then they don't care").

Again, I do not adhere to the comparison.  At all.  But it's worth noting that that's how they felt.
Many still argue it that way.

It wasn't quite as "in" for Democratic partisans to push the party-switch narrative back then, so I think it was a more respected comparison.

Was it always that the Republicans were the pro-life and the Democrats were the pro-choice party? I know that by 1984, that was the case.

Nixon, Ford, and H. W. were all at one time or another pro-choice.

W and Trump were, too.
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2017, 12:13:04 PM »

Great question, and brilliant, well-thought out alternative scenarios.

2115 is a long way away.

I think one major factor will be the role of Islam in the West. Abortion does not seem to me to be a "signature" issue in Islam, as it is in the Roman Catholic Church and among Evangelicals. Still, especially considering the evolving relationship between Western feminism and Islam, it is difficult to predict how Islam will tilt the discussion / legal status of abortion.

Leaving the role of Islam aside, certain predictions can be made.

1. Even people who are personally pro-life will be less and less supportive of laws that prohibit abortion or make its access difficult.

2. Pro-life crisis pregnancy centers will still be a thing, existing alongside groups such as Planned Parenthood. Sadly, and to the detriment of women and children, these two groups will still see each other as enemies, rather than allies in the fight against unwanted pregnancy and for dignity of pregnant women and new mothers, and their children.

3. Legal opposition to abortion will be pretty much confined to conservative, practicing Catholics and (white) Evangelicals.

4. It will be legal, and about as prevalent as today (though the declining number of abortion practitioners will make access difficult for many women, particularly rural and poor women), and will be a less discussed issue. As of June 2017, I believe both sides have pretty much played themselves out.

A comparison was made between the abortion and slavery. I believe abortion will be more like the drinking issue: such a major issue 100 years ago, hardly a blip now.

I really hope you're right; I was just making the point that you can take historical politics and spin the narrative in any way you want.  Hard not to see some continuity between a hypothetical Democratic criticism of either position in both eras, which is exactly how the first militant pro-life voters saw it.

So abortion will either
1) Still a the cluster4uck it is today.
2) An issue like slavery, where, probably through a major disaster, the fetus's right to not be aborted becomes one of the cornerstones of Western Law and Ethics.
3) Like the last long failed war on Drugs in the 20s, where people use it as a case study of why freedom works and Government regulation fails and just causes more suffering.   
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 07:33:29 AM »

The Same way people view slavery today will be similar to how abortion will be viewed as later

While I disagree with this on so many levels, it is definitely interesting to look back at the beginning of the pro-life movement.  It's supporters absolutely branded themselves as the ideological descendants of the abolitionists, arguing that the characterization of fetuses as less than human and undeserving of full rights was eerily similar to how proponents of slavery spoke of Blacks ("Northern Republicans care so much about these slaves but couldn't care less about starving Irish immigrants in NYC" isn't a dramatically different criticism in style than "Republicans are pro-life until the baby leaves the womb, then they don't care").

Again, I do not adhere to the comparison.  At all.  But it's worth noting that that's how they felt.
Many still argue it that way.

It wasn't quite as "in" for Democratic partisans to push the party-switch narrative back then, so I think it was a more respected comparison.

Was it always that the Republicans were the pro-life and the Democrats were the pro-choice party? I know that by 1984, that was the case.

Nixon, Ford, and H. W. were all at one time or another pro-choice.

W and Trump were, too.

Trump, yes, but W has been pro-life throughout his whole public life.

Didn't he run for Congress in Texas when he stated something to the affect that abortion was a personal matter or at least he didn't care about it. It's my understanding that about a quarter of GOP voters "don't care" about abortion.. or really in both parties...
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2017, 10:58:15 AM »

Legal, not a political issue, both parties are ok with it, actually favored due to massive planetary overpopulation, growing tech/holo-introverted societies, and dwindling resources. Additionally, you start to see countries contemplate and actually pass laws in favor of one-child policies again.

That seems like a logical prediction of how things will be 100 years from now, but there have been so many curve balls thrown between even 1965 and 2015...or even 1995 and 2015.
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2017, 06:25:02 AM »

Legal, not a political issue, both parties are ok with it, actually favored due to massive planetary overpopulation, growing tech/holo-introverted societies, and dwindling resources. Additionally, you start to see countries contemplate and actually pass laws in favor of one-child policies again.
"One" is the loneliest number, in addition to being an odd number. Two, maybe.

I would hope the status of girls and women worldwide improves before more countries seriously contemplate one- (or two-) child policies. We all know about how after China intorduced its one-child policy in 1979, the male-female ratio especially in rural areas became very skewed, in "favor" of males.

Perhaps we will find a way to reconcile personal/religious views against abortion (and in favor of life); privacy and free choice and accessibility for women facing problem pregnancies; and perhaps a small need for regulation, as long as it is needed, to discourage or prevent sex-selection abortions (in addition to normal medical regulations on the procedure, which should not be seen as overly restrictive or as a backdoor attempt to roll back abortion rights).

I typed one instead of two because the impetus will be on population reduction although I am aware of the Chinese male-female ratio problem. I don't think in 2115 religious beliefs on procedures will have much standing or for that matter the ability to deny an operation, esp in western and 1st world nations, it will be more of a problem in Islamic as well as under and undeveloped nations.

Latin America will be interedting.
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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Posts: 36,667
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2017, 08:07:50 AM »

Legal, not a political issue, both parties are ok with it, actually favored due to massive planetary overpopulation, growing tech/holo-introverted societies, and dwindling resources. Additionally, you start to see countries contemplate and actually pass laws in favor of one-child policies again.

That seems like a logical prediction of how things will be 100 years from now, but there have been so many curve balls thrown between even 1965 and 2015...or even 1995 and 2015.

Why?  I mean, I hope that abortion becomes safe, legal and rare pretty much everywhere, but there isn't a lot of evidence that public opinion has moved decidedly in a pro-choice trend (quite the opposite over the last 30 years), and this view of the future being echoed by so many hinges upon the assumption that people won't look back on abortion as something people "started to realize was morally wrong but took time to become outlawed" ala slavery.  I don't THINK that's going to happen, but the fact that people can't entertain that turn of events, given history, is kind of baffling.

I don't really think its really moved in the direction of abortion being illegal. We won't really know  much until if and when Roe is disregarded.
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Person Man
Angry_Weasel
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Posts: 36,667
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2017, 05:23:30 PM »

I've thought a bit about the future of abortion. he interesting thing about abortion is that it is essentially a bioethics issue (though wrapped in a lot of political and religious imagery). Instead of going completely in one direction or another, it will likely become part of a constellation of contentious bioethics issues, such as (but not limited to) "designer babies," novel medical treatments, and artificial life.

This, or emerging biological drugs such as Gene Editing and Therapeutically cloned grafts will become part of the "abortion issue" as have Birth Control funding and IUDs have.
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