MN Sen Recount (UPDATE: Stuart Smalley certified winner, lawsuit forthcoming)

[minionofmidas]

So, will we have a good idea of who wins tomorrow?

Coleman wins. Franken's narrowed the gap but is falling short.

Unless I'm wrong, in which case I'm wrong.-

[minionofmidas]

So, will we have a good idea of who wins tomorrow?

Coleman wins. Franken's narrowed the gap but is falling short.

Unless I'm wrong, in which case I'm wrong.-

Since when was he narrowing the gap?

Since the Coleman campaign found it necessary to challenge perfectly valid ballots.

A stupidity the other side then duplicated, of course.

[minionofmidas]

But the key point is that these are absentee ballots which were rejected--typically, the votes of those who haven't voted absentee before, so a lot of college students and new voters; as well as the votes of those who tend to make mistakes while voting, which also tend to be Democrats

This is Minnesota so it probably doesn't apply here, but one would assume a sizable chunk of military (non-commissioned) votes among absentees with errors.

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Not in every state. Not in Alaska, for instance. It sort of depends what categories of potential voters, exactly, cast provisional votes: on the state of the voter register itself, on whether there are rules allowing people to cast a provisional vote at the wrong precinct, etc.

[minionofmidas]

No. The chances rose, but they're still probably under 50%.

Not that the decision is surprising, of course - simply because it's essentially dictated by common sense.

[minionofmidas]

You are forgetting, that run-off would lead to a substantial increase in the number of races w/ more than 2 candidates. In fact, methinks, if the run-off were the norm, the three- or four- semi-serious candidate races would become the norm as well.

That should be verifiable, as parts of the US (former confederacy minus Tennessee plus South Dakota) use runoffs in their primaries.

Btw, a good example of an election that wasn't close as it was but would likely have been with IRV is LA-6 this year.

[minionofmidas]

The board ruled against counting this for Coleman and that it's an undervote:

http://senaterecount.startribune.com/media/ballotPDFs/carver_Victoria_2_challengedballot9.pdf

Not that I'm complaining.

In all fairness, I can see where they're coming from.

But they'd better be following that strict a standard throughout.

[minionofmidas]

What happens if we have a tie?  Anyone knows?

Coin flip.  No, really.  This is established in state law.

In Nevada, they draw cards from a Poker deck.

[minionofmidas]

So much for my (our) theory that the Franken campaign's counts of what the recount looked like without frivolous challenges included a lot of wishful thinking.

[minionofmidas]

assert that homeschooling should be illegal,

Never heard a sane person who was not an American citizen claim any different.

[minionofmidas]

assert that homeschooling should be illegal,

Never heard a sane person who was not an American citizen claim any different.

So you believe that children are basically instruments for government indoctrination?  Sick.

Nature has given us the family for a reason.

Correction: Nature has given us society for a reason.
The family (the core family, that is. Not the extended family. Which really used to be the same thing as society anyways. The core family as pretending-to-be-self-contained unit.) is a 19th ideological construct and wholly unnatural to man.
It's actually a later invention than compulsory schooling.
And yes, obviously the government-run school system has indoctrination issues as well. Though obviously not on the same scale. As do private schools. It's not, after all, possible to tell where education ends and indoctrination begins, exactly.[/serious reply to troll comment]

Which answers your query too, Red - me'n Gully aren't too far apart (though sane he isn't, not quite. But that's a different story).

[minionofmidas]

HEY!

We had such a nice thread hijack going here!

[minionofmidas]

The date is not different but the dating intent was, I'm sure.

[minionofmidas]

Just quoting you from memory, Gull.

[minionofmidas]

And how is Burris' appointment any less obvious?

Are you arguing that Burris should be Senator?

Immediately after Blagojevich's arrest there was bipartisan agreement to hold a special election to fill the vacant Senate seat. A special election required legislation and a bill was drafted, ready for filing, by the end of the week after the arrest. The intent was to pass the bill on the Monday and Tuesday one week after the arrest.

The draft of that bill included language anticipating that Blago would an appointment before the bill became law. That language would relegate the appointment to "temporary" status, such that the appointment would only be valid until the special election winner was certified. The leaders of the legislature believed that an appointment by Blago would be valid, or that language would not have been part of the bill.

I echo the legal reasoning of the legislature. I see an absence of any allegation that this particular appointment involved an unlawful act.  The appropriate action is to accept the appointment however unpalatable, and move forward with a special election that would obviate further need of an appointment to fill the seat.

Could - just in theory; no reason why the Ill. state Reps should agree to it - that language be passed as a law in its own right, so that Burris' terms ends when Blago's successor names a new replacement Senator (ie just give Governors the right to change appointed Senators' at will?)

[minionofmidas]

That's an interesting idea. I don't know whether the reading of the 17th amendment allows for more than one appointment prior to an election. "When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct."

Ah yes. You're right.

Of course, this language seems to suppose that by-elections occur much as for the House.