Does "three fifths of all other Persons" still apply?

[minionofmidas]

Illegal aliens certainly are free.

[minionofmidas]

Illegal aliens certainly are free.

Then perhaps they should count as "Indians not taxed"?

Why? They do pay sales taxes, and are not members of domestic dependent nations.

[minionofmidas]

No. Slavery is no longer legal, thus there is no longer the distinction between free and unfree persons.

I suppose it depends on how you diagram the sentence. "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."  If you diagram it so that the clause "except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted"  is applying to just  "involuntary servitude" you'd be right, but grammatically it woul dbe just as proper to have it apply to the whole of "neither slavery nor involuntary servitude", in which case it would be constitutional for people to be sentenced to slavery as a punishment for a crime, they just couldn't be born into the peculiar institution as was the case pre-1865.

Ice T › Ya Shoulda Killed Me Last Year (1:41) [last track on O.G.Original Gangster album. Not a song really, not even a rap, just spoken words over a sinister beat):

"Before i go id like to say a few things. this album was completed on january 15th 1991. By now the war has probably started and a whole bunch of people have probably died out there in the desert over some bulls**t. Theres a war goin on right now in my neighborhood but i cant really determine which one is worse..I think the one that we are all fightin is f**ked up and thats the war inside our brains you know. but uh i feel bad about all the brothers and sisters gettin pulled right out of their neighborhoods, all the cities and small towns in america, that go over there and fight for that bulls**t that most of them dont really have anything to do with. So i gotta send peace out to em. Also peace out to all my homies in jail, brothers that are dead locked up right here on earth..talkin about the brothers in soledad, san quentin, all the way up in pelican bay, tracy, chino, and all my homeboys out there in the east coast lockdown facilities. Im talkin about clinton, rikers, joliet, you know every prison in the whole f**kin world man, thats like you know all bull**it you know. they say slavery has been abolished except for the convicted felon yall need to think about that. that lets you know what the f**kin constitution is really about you know. Alot of my homeboys have been locked down
my whole entire career and thats some bulls**t. So for them from the Rhyme Syndicate and Ice-T id like to send this special shout out...F**k the police, f**k the FBI, f**k the DEA, f**k the CIA, f**k Tipper Gore, Bush and his crippled bitch. This is Ice-T im out of here, told ya you shoulda killed me last year.. "

(Yeah well, just read the bolded part if you don't want your thread hijacked )

[minionofmidas]

Article I Section 2 Clause 3 Sentence 1 states:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.[/b]

It normally gets pointed out in annotated copies of the Constitution that this sentence got replaced by Amendment XIV Clause 2 Sentemnce 1:
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed.[/b]

However, note that it does not mention direct taxes, so the original sentence still applies for them.  This of course raises the question are there any other Persons it would apply to?  Would persons sentenced to a life sentence or the death penalty count as only 3/5ths?  How about illegal aliens?

I find it odd that no one ever mentions where the 3/5 of a person clause came from.
The Southern State's wanted their slaves to be counted as people, the Northern State's knew that this would greatly increase the population of the Southern State's and wanted the slaves to not be counted at all. Thus, the 3/5's compromise.
Another question that arises from this, since "Indian's" are counted in the Census, are they subtracted from State totals before apportioning Representatives?
From a legal standpoint, the 3/5 of "other persons" could be interpretted to include illegal imigrants. Would make an interesting court case. Where's a good lawyer?

There are no Indians Not Taxed (in the census definition - ie, Indians habitually residing outside the part of the country reachable for the IRS, rather than the possible definition of Indians who paid no income tax last year)