Socialism vs. Capitalism

[Beet]

The problem is that 'socialism', however one uses the term, can only be used to describe policies in one country; Fantsystan can be socialist, or have socialistic policies. Fantasystan can be capitalist, or have capitalistic policies (or lack thereof). But the world as a whole can only be capitalist; not because the people of the world have decided collectively to enact a certain balance of market and government but because there is no world government. And little to no inclination to move toward it.

Thus Fantasystan can provide for a minimum wage, job guarantees, high taxes, a social safety net, and such and such and such, but it cannot set a minimum wage for the world, or regulate the markets in Imaginationstan. Imaginationstan can enact similar socialistic or capitalistic policies, but provided the standard of living is lower and it has sufficient infrastructure, Imaginationstan can always undercut Fantasystan.

The world only has a set amount of natural resources, and they become relatively scarcer when being competed for by both Fantasystan and Imaginationstan than they were when only Fantasystan was in the running.

Fantasystan is a 'developed' country. The process of development begins in the 'basic sciences', and then moves through 'invention', which become products through 'innovation', and these products are widely dissemenated through 'industrialization'. Having experienced these process for several centuries, the residents of both Fantasystan and Imaginationstan, but especially Fantasystan, come to expect ever rising standards of living. The standards of living become quantified through a market price. A certain percentage growth is expected in this market price every year, and when it does not grow, it is considered to be abnormal. But this whole process depends on continued basic science of the type which yields to the process of invention, innovation and dissemination in a useful manner. As any basic researcher will tell you, the process of basic science is highly unpredictable.

If the real cost of energy resources and other natural resources, for example, continues to rise through scarcity, without an offsetting decrease in costs brought about by scientific discovery, or better organization, there is downward pressure on living standards.

[Beet]

Does there need to be world government for "socialism" (however you define it) - couldn't one say that for "capitalism" (however you define it) as well? Perhaps not, the USSR and the USA occasionally cut economic deals after all

I suppose you're right. But in that case, get yourself to 700 19th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20431 and you'll be set.

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No, they're not really socialist. The definition of socialism is when the state owns the means of production. In so far as Social Security is a transfer scheme and does not actually produce anything, it is not really socialist. Education, on the other hand... But there is some subjectivity in these labels, so I was merely following the diction of the current thread.

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Why, h'aint you ever heard of greed? Those wonderful Medieval Monks would cast off their frocks and run, not walk, to the 21st century if they could.

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What sort of person wants a CEO salary? Yes, that's the root of the current mess.. and the root of all civilization.

Let me put one interpretation out there. The following is only an interpretation. We should mourn, that in the 21st century, limited natural resources and environmental degredation, combined with the decelerration of economically useful science, will--may gradually lead to a decline in human civilization after a more than 10,000 year advance. It is truly a tragic inflection point to be at, and there is a good chance that distasteful son of privilege was leader of the world, and these corrupt Wall Street insiders were those to enjoy the most of what the world had to offer, at what may be Western-- or human civilization's crowning moment of glory-- the last summer days when indefinite growth into the future seemed possible.

[Beet]

Greed? I can't say I care much for him. Though I must say there is something much too flat of this view of humanity... not that it isn't true, for the most part though individuals are more various and stranger than that, but flat.

Well true, it is. It is one view. A flat view to be sure, but one that nonetheless dominates many people's lives.

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Beats me. All I'm saying is that people do care. That question is much like 'what is the meaning of life'?

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We'll see.