So will any other Hillary supporters be voting for McCain?

[Beet]

Not a Hillary supporter, though I was Unlike most Republicans legitimately quite favorable to her and would have been happy with her as president. But I’m curious why you Hillary supporters would not support Obama, given that there do not seem to be many policy differences between them. If you don’t mind me asking, what is it about Obama that rubs you the wrong way?

I just have a big personal dislike for Obama.   He seems extremely fake.  I made a comment about how his rallies placed lots of white people behind him in another thread and basically everyone here said that was OK because it's typical political posturing.  Fine, but I thought he was the candidate of change and all that.  He just seems to be an empty suit that gives good speeches and makes unrealistic claims, like that he was a law professor for instance.

The University of Chicago has said that he was a senior lecturer, which is different from lecturer and actually the equivalent of full professor. The only difference is that he was not tenured (but neither are many professors).

Perhaps nothing has astonished me this primary season as the number of politics watchers who have somehow developed an ignorance about political campaigns and hold their candidates up to extra-politically high standards. It's a jungle out there. I defended Hillary when the Obama people were trying to hold her to a ridiculously high ethical standard, even though she also could have run a much cleaner campaign. But this is absurd. To complain about the fact that the campaign is conscious of the people standing behind the candidate when they give a speech? This is one of the most rote and mundane things that every candidate has done for decades.

I don't think being "the candidate of change" requires one to be so extreme that one fails to take basic campaign precautions. That kind of idealism is responsible for long-haired hippies who drop out of society to remain pure but end up accomplishing very little.

[Beet]

Thank you for your answer.  Respectfully, I think all candidates think that they are "better than everyone else" in what they plan to deliver.  I think that the perception that one candidate feels himself or herself "superior" is mostly connected to a fundamental dislike of them.  I often feel that way about Clinton.  I don't think that's really fair.

I do want to look into this more though.  In the end, I don't think Obama has a particularly extensive pattern of disingenuous behavior.  I don't see how you can see this as a big deal but not something like Clinton's Serbia trip.  They seem, at best, in the same league.  I don't really remember a Presidential candidate who didn't have at least a few of these quirks and manipulations.

I do hope someone asks him about it, though.  It warrants a response.  It won't be the basis of my vote, but it doesn't make me think any better of Senator Obama.

You're probably right.  I am a bit biased because I was a Hillary supporter and now I'm a McCain supporter.  But I think this irks me because as someone who just finished law school, I know how rigorous the character and fitness process is to pass the bar, and they specifically look into issues about lying about former employment.  I agree that Hillary lied about the Serbia trip though.  At the end of the day we're all going to just vote on the issues and our gut feeling of the candidates though.

You did vote for Obama in February.

How can you vote for someone that would basically reward everything that Bush has done in the past 8 years, let alone the regressive direction of the country for the past generation? Who is against everything that both Hillary and Obama stand for? Has the primary turned you off that much? You do realize that if McCain had been in a primary like that you probably would have discovered all sorts of outrageous things you couldn't stand about him, right?

[Beet]

here is a post I lifted from Obama Underground (formerly Democratic Underground) I feel it best expresses how the rest of us feel about Obama.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5863583&mesg_id=5863583

Thank you for not being around with your venom while Hillary actually had a chance, and thank you for posting today for the first time since October 18, 2004. That even beats SomeLawStudent's explosion of activity in the past couple days, compared to his usual 2-3 posts per month.

[Beet]

Thank you for your answer.  Respectfully, I think all candidates think that they are "better than everyone else" in what they plan to deliver.  I think that the perception that one candidate feels himself or herself "superior" is mostly connected to a fundamental dislike of them.  I often feel that way about Clinton.  I don't think that's really fair.

I do want to look into this more though.  In the end, I don't think Obama has a particularly extensive pattern of disingenuous behavior.  I don't see how you can see this as a big deal but not something like Clinton's Serbia trip.  They seem, at best, in the same league.  I don't really remember a Presidential candidate who didn't have at least a few of these quirks and manipulations.

I do hope someone asks him about it, though.  It warrants a response.  It won't be the basis of my vote, but it doesn't make me think any better of Senator Obama.

You're probably right.  I am a bit biased because I was a Hillary supporter and now I'm a McCain supporter.  But I think this irks me because as someone who just finished law school, I know how rigorous the character and fitness process is to pass the bar, and they specifically look into issues about lying about former employment.  I agree that Hillary lied about the Serbia trip though.  At the end of the day we're all going to just vote on the issues and our gut feeling of the candidates though.

You did vote for Obama in February.

How can you vote for someone that would basically reward everything that Bush has done in the past 8 years, let alone the regressive direction of the country for the past generation? Who is against everything that both Hillary and Obama stand for? Has the primary turned you off that much? You do realize that if McCain had been in a primary like that you probably would have discovered all sorts of outrageous things you couldn't stand about him, right?

Yes, I realize the reason I am voting for McCain is partially because of a heated Democratic Primary.  But it's not like I didn't give Barack Obama a shot, which is more than I can say for many of his supporters - certain groups in particular - for Hillary.  The fact is though, that I've grown tired of Obama and speech after meaningless speech when he is just like every other fake politician.  At least Hillary Clinton doesn't pretend she's not a political fake to the extent Obama does.

You can't judge a candidate by what some of his "supporters" may or may not do-- there are millions of people around and a candidate can't control his supporters. Two of the most painful Hillary gotchas where the media really went after her were Tuzla and Ferraro. Obama went out of his way to defend Hillary on both occasions. He criticized the media's focus on Ferraro during his Wright speech, saying it was a trivial issue. And in the Pennsylvania debate he said that Hillary had the right to make a mistake on Tuzla and we should focus on the important issues. That was very, very gracious and if you do not give him credit for it, too bad because he was being quite consistent in his personal desire to get past gotcha politics.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

I don't think the republican primary between McCain and romney, which lasted only a month, and McCain scoring all the important wins, was really that heated. If McCain was forced into a very tough non winner take all primary till now, I can bet that he would have done many things that pissed people off and made numerous gaffes; furthermore he would be perceived much further to the right than he is now.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Obama's spending plans, starting with health care, are considerably lighter than Clinton's, so something doesn't add up there. Clinton was "to the right" of Obama about the same as Kansas City, Kansas is to the west of Kansas City Missouri. They agreed on 62 of 64 votes according to the National Journal. That doesn't mean Kansas City, Kansas residents should move to Beijing. And on economic issues, he's arguably to the right of her.

Finally, I don't think it takes a hardcore Dem to vote Dem because of Bush. Strange as it may seem I was briefly a republican myself in 2001, and it had nothing to do with 9/11. We have had 8 years of an ultra-divisive President who is far to the right of even his own historically polarized congressional caucus. Voting for another 82% conservative will do nothing to heal our divisions in the long run and will just vindicate Bush.