22nd Amendment to be repealed?

[Beet]

I would like to see term limits repealed at the state legislative level first.

I do not believe any single individual should be President for longer than eight years. One of the great things about the limit is that no matter how much one side dislikes a President, you know he won't be President after a certain point. At that point, there is a change. Republicans living in the 1930s and 40s when it seemed like Roosevelt would be President for their whole lives must have been in an absolute nightmare. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[Beet]

I would like to see term limits repealed at the state legislative level first.

I do not believe any single individual should be President for longer than eight years. One of the great things about the limit is that no matter how much one side dislikes a President, you know he won't be President after a certain point. At that point, there is a change. Republicans living in the 1930s and 40s when it seemed like Roosevelt would be President for their whole lives must have been in an absolute nightmare. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I would agree that generally speaking, it is not good for a President to serve more than 8 years. I would absolutely support this being used against any such President in the campaign by the opposing party.

But I think that's the bottom line; it should be an issue, yes, but ultimately the people are the only ones who can be trusted to weigh the pros and cons in each individual case of a President staying in office longer than 8 years. In the case of FDR, I think him staying longer than 8 years was a good thing, due to World War 2. The "no 3rd term" issue was used against him fairly effectively, and did help lead to him getting a much smaller percentage of the vote than he had in 1936.

Well, this is where I break with the populist position. Obviously, in our republic as Ernest points out there are checks and balances on the popular will, and the term limit is one of them. Its there to put a limit on the power of unchecked populism, repeatedly electing a candidate who happens to be personally favored by the masses, but who eventually grows into an idol with undefinite ability to bully the opposition. If people prefer a certain set of ideas to continue, they can continually re-elect the same party. But I don't believe in Kings or Big Brothers, not even popularly elected ones.

[Beet]

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That's not true if we have term limits.

You said voting for offices should be unrestricted. Should we abolish age requirements? Residency requirements? Possibly yes, but I wouldn't say I'm against restrictions on principle. I would say you look at the individual restriction and whether or not it serves a purpose that outweighs the costs.

I only support limits for executive offices, because this is the only level where I think there is a risk of cult of personality upsetting checks and balances. Frankly, there are many things I do distrust the people on: I distrust them to vote directly on how to interpret the Constitution, for example. That's why we have judges. I distrust them to vote on individual rights, that's why we have the Bill of Rights. I distrust them to vote directly on all on legislation, that's why we have representatives who do it. The whole idea of checks and balances comes down to these institutions that limit situations where pure majority rule is a problem. And I think executive-office term limits is one of those protections.

Term limits do not prevent the continuations of the same themes, the same ideas, the same policies, or the same directions. All it prevents is continuation of the same person, beyond 8 years. I think people have a tendency in some cases to build up a cult of personality; to create an idol whose personal aura and lure eventually becomes its own independent force. By this point we are basically electing royalty, a kind of royalty anointed by the majority. Executive term limits keep this tendency in ultimate check and focuses our democracy on the ideas, the policies, and the processes, and not any one individual. That is why I support them.

[Beet]

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That's not true if we have term limits.

You said voting for offices should be unrestricted. Should we abolish age requirements? Residency requirements? Possibly yes, but I wouldn't say I'm against restrictions on principle. I would say you look at the individual restriction and whether or not it serves a purpose that outweighs the costs.

I only support limits for executive offices, because this is the only level where I think there is a risk of cult of personality upsetting checks and balances. Frankly, there are many things I do distrust the people on: I distrust them to vote directly on how to interpret the Constitution, for example. That's why we have judges. I distrust them to vote on individual rights, that's why we have the Bill of Rights. I distrust them to vote directly on all on legislation, that's why we have representatives who do it. The whole idea of checks and balances comes down to these institutions that limit situations where pure majority rule is a problem. And I think executive-office term limits is one of those protections.

Term limits do not prevent the continuations of the same themes, the same ideas, the same policies, or the same directions. All it prevents is continuation of the same person, beyond 8 years. I think people have a tendency in some cases to build up a cult of personality; to create an idol whose personal aura and lure eventually becomes its own independent force. By this point we are basically electing royalty, a kind of royalty anointed by the majority. Executive term limits keep this tendency in ultimate check and focuses our democracy on the ideas, the policies, and the processes, and not any one individual. That is why I support them.

I do agree that if we are going to have term limits, it makes a lot more sense for the executive branch than it does for the legislative. And I certainly don't support direct democracy or getting rid of checks and balances, I just think that the pendulum has swung too far away from democracy with things like term limits adding to the list of things I and you both already mentioned, all of which I, like you, do support.

Well, I think it would be better to first go after rules which make little sense, such as the electoral college. The electoral college creates an effective elite out of about 1/3 of the electorate living in battleground states, while pushing the rest- urban and rural, republican and democratic alike, to the fringes of the political body.

[Beet]

Yeah, we agree on that