PBS Milwaukee, WI Democratic debate @9pm ET **live commentary thread**

[Beet]

Great opening speech by Sanders.

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Just looked up, and IMO Hillary's suit is quite garish. If there's one thing I miss about iSneed, it's that she had very good taste in clothing.

If this is a contest of looks, I'm afraid the Republicans have us beat.

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Ugh, Clinton goes straight to personal attacks. She always pumps her body up and down when she's doing this like a petulant child. And the problem with her whole argument is that neither of them can realistically implement their plans with this Congress.

Sanders is talking about bread and butter issues that matter to the American people.

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Sanders just keeps throwing out the same slogans and it works for him.

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Good answer on Sanders on poor whites. Clinton is good with specifics but Sanders is showing he thinks systemically.

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Sanders' willingness to use the word "corrupt" is emblematic of the reason he's done so well and may win against Clinton.

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Hillary talking about policy fine but not addressing Sanders' point about why interests contribute money.

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Women announcers, women questioners, women analysts, lol.

I liked Sanders "Why does the _____ industry donate?" Line that he repeated with various industries. It's a very good point.

That was the weakness of Clinton's whole image and she failed to address it head on. If she loses the campaign, it'll be because of this.

[Beet]

I liked Sanders "Why does the _____ industry donate?" Line that he repeated with various industries. It's a very good point.

Indeed. It says a lot that Hillary has NO response to that.

Here is the proper response:
"Senator Sanders, I ran against President Obama in 2008 and found him a formidable opponent.  HE took money from the pharmaceutical industry!  HE took money from billionaires!  For heaven's sake, he took twice as much money from Wall Street as I have!  [misleading statistic, use the general election numbers]  So I ask you Senator Sanders, since you appear to be claiming that our President was bought and paid for by those industries, what did they get out of it?  What did he give them for all the money they gave him?"
Maybe she could start listing things AGAINST those industries' interests that Obama did and claiming she was partly responsible for them.

This doesn't answer the question. Is she arguing that the corporations that donated to Obama did so for no good reason? Out of the goodness of their heart? Or do they just like to waste their money?

The correct answer is 1) employees of industries are not the same as industries themselves, and 2) only 7% of Clinton's donations were from Wall Street employees. In a small, local election a single industry can dominate a politician, but with a national figure like Hillary, she doesn't really need them. Bernie's own campaign (as well as Obama's in 2008) proved that huge numbers of smaller donors are more important for national candidates.

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lol Bernie complaining that a general statement of principles is very different than a specific proposal and claiming the latter is what he should be judged on

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Great statement by Clinton on China. It's the second largest economy and most powerful potential adversary and I would love to have a president who appreciates the importance of maintaining good relations with it. Sanders on the on other hand is going full on xenophobe.

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Kissinger is a big name, easy to demonize.  By the way, Romney also could be paraphrased as saying "count me as one who will not be listening to Kissinger" and he did win his party's nomination.

I think we're generally bigoted toward China, so on this I disagree with both major parties, but if history is any indication, Sanders' statement about Kissinger does not doom his campaign.  In fact, anti-Chinese bigotry seems to be fashionable among Americans of all stripes.  

Well, except for most Chinese Americans.

[Beet]

Kissinger is a big name, easy to demonize.  By the way, Romney also could be paraphrased as saying "count me as one who will not be listening to Kissinger" and he did win his party's nomination.

I think we're generally bigoted toward China, so on this I disagree with both major parties, but if history is any indication, Sanders' statement about Kissinger does not doom his campaign.  In fact, anti-Chinese bigotry seems to be fashionable among Americans of all stripes. 

Well, except for most Chinese Americans.

Chinese American =/= Chinese government....

What? I never said we were. I wish the government would be overthrown. But I and most Chinese Americans I know aren't favorable towards anti-Chinese bigotry.

[Beet]

Kissinger is a big name, easy to demonize.  By the way, Romney also could be paraphrased as saying "count me as one who will not be listening to Kissinger" and he did win his party's nomination.

I think we're generally bigoted toward China, so on this I disagree with both major parties, but if history is any indication, Sanders' statement about Kissinger does not doom his campaign.  In fact, anti-Chinese bigotry seems to be fashionable among Americans of all stripes. 

Well, except for most Chinese Americans.

Chinese American =/= Chinese government....

What? I never said we were. I wish the government would be overthrown. But I and most Chinese Americans I know aren't favorable towards anti-Chinese bigotry.

Well, let's say China was a democratic state. Would there still be as much bigotry against them? Maybe, but probably not. Part of the attack on them is on trade and political issues.

There was bigotry against Japan on trade issues and it was democratic at the time. Hopefully it'll die down as China's economy starts faltering, as with Japan. But still not a fan of Bernie's engagement with it. Especially since he seems to have good judgement on foreign policy in general.

[Beet]

Bernie's closing statement goes to the core of his political philosophy.

Hillary's is just a list of policy positions.

We're electing a president, not a philosopher. Bernie can wax as much as he wants about a movement, but after the election his campaign will close down, his staffers will move on, and his volunteers will return to their lives.

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I like Bernie's philosophy. I think it's great. I just thinks it shows a certain naivety to talk as if the president is a dictator who can impose his vision on the country. Hillary sounds like someone who has actually tried to get things done and knows what it's like. She sounds more engaged with the world than him.

As to the debate, it was a tie. Clinton won the beginning and end, Bernie won the middle.

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Clinton never gets credit for her judgement being the first to propose credit default swap regulations and mortgage debt writedowns in late 2007, or supporting the a health care plan with an individual mandate in 2008 that later became Obamacare, or (and I know 99% of you will disagree with me on this) the fact that if Obama had taken out Assad in 2012 we wouldn't have ISIS or the refugee crisis today.

But I agree that her political judgement is atrocious. That's a valid reason to oppose her.

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No, I actually like that he's trying. Still, at some point he is going to hit reality, win or lose, and we have no idea of how he is going to deal with it. With Hillary, it's true she won't get her proposals either, but she shows awareness with everything that she says that it won't be easy. Bernie doesn't.

[Beet]

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No, I actually like that he's trying. Still, at some point he is going to hit reality, win or lose, and we have no idea of how he is going to deal with it. With Hillary, it's true she won't get her proposals either, but she shows awareness with everything that she says that it won't be easy. Bernie doesn't.

To the contrary. Hillary shows lack of awareness of the political reality, by thinking that politics as usual and the trite 1990s democratic campaigning style will lead her to achieve anything.

Bernie is aware of the fact that the only way we have any chance to move America forward is through by trying to inspire a massive popular movement, and energize people who normally don't participate in the political process.

If Bernie wins the nomination, will you take a bet with me that we don't have Medicare for all and that the financial industry is still giving millions of dollars to presidential candidates by January 20, 2021?

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Exactly - this is such a stupid position for the Hillary campaign to take. The only way she's getting legislation through a Republican congress is if she goes Bill Clinton on them and starts signing off on right-wing legislation.

Which is a distinct possibility.

Yup. I am increasingly starting to fear that a Hillary victory would bring us back to the nightmarish dystopia that the late 1990s-early 2000s period was for the left. The only way we can avoid that is if grassroots progressive never once stop holding her feet on fire. That's why Bernie's campaign will do a lot of good even if he doesn't win.

You do what you can with a Republican Congress.  If you want her to do more for the progressive cause, then give her a Democratic Congress.   

Sanders has a strong plan to elect a Democratic majority in Congress because he's building a movement that's not just about himself.... oh wait.