Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (user search)
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  Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission (search mode)
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Author Topic: Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission  (Read 6414 times)
Beet
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« on: January 22, 2010, 10:14:13 PM »

It's impossible for the vast majority of people to understand what this decision really means right now. It'll be 15 or 20 years before the full impact begins to be apparent. By that time I expect the skepticism towards this decision will be much greater. But for now it's as if the Supreme Court struck down laws against child labor. "Child labor? What's that? Why's that so bad?"
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Beet
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 10:21:02 PM »

It's impossible for the vast majority of people to understand what this decision really means right now. It'll be 15 or 20 years before the full impact begins to be apparent. By that time I expect the skepticism towards this decision will be much greater. But for now it's as if the Supreme Court struck down laws against child labor. "Child labor? What's that? Why's that so bad?"

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard.  I'm really surprised to see you say this.

Why?
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Beet
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 10:44:49 PM »

It's impossible for the vast majority of people to understand what this decision really means right now. It'll be 15 or 20 years before the full impact begins to be apparent. By that time I expect the skepticism towards this decision will be much greater. But for now it's as if the Supreme Court struck down laws against child labor. "Child labor? What's that? Why's that so bad?"

That's one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever heard.  I'm really surprised to see you say this.

Why?

Because it's hyperbole to the most extreme extent in terms of effect.  Legally, the Supreme Court's decision was correct here - I can't make the same argument about the child labor cases (or the minimum wage cases, etc..)

Maybe. The point is just that people intellectually know this is a huge decision. But that's not the same as years or decades of evidence of the decision's effects on politics and policies, and the real stories, the real people, the real examples, that these decades of history present. People today understand that child labor is deeply wrong intellectually, but unless they've done some unconventional overseas tourism, they've never seen long lines of children manning assembly lines, never had their own children work instead of school, the idea seems distant, difficult to imagine.

The Justices of 1907 saw what unfettered corporate political speech meant; the Justices of 2010 never have.
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Beet
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2010, 11:23:49 PM »

You may well be right, Sam. Of course, the Justices of 1907 will not be able to see how Citizens United would affect the world of today.

But this just feeds back into my point that it is impossible for the vast majority if not anyone to fully appreciate what the effect of this case will be-- if, as in your own hypothesis, corporations are already as deeply embedded in political speech as possible and regulation is having little effect, then perhaps this decision will one day be seen as not the monumental case it is today. It will be like the Concorde or the Marlboro price cut of 1993- seen as landmark at the time, but in retrospect having little impact.

That's a possibility too.

My personal forebodings aren't particularly good-- yes, corporations will always try to find ways around restrictions, but that doesn't mean the restrictions are entirely ineffective. Even ineffective restrictions raise the cost of entry and limit the scope of action. The point though, is that we don't know.  But we would do well to keep a close watch.
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