My journey to athiesm. (user search)
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  My journey to athiesm. (search mode)
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Author Topic: My journey to athiesm.  (Read 5621 times)
Tetro Kornbluth
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« on: June 16, 2010, 06:11:49 PM »

I have to say that there was no real 'journey' except away from atheism somewhat. I remember arguing with my mother over whether there was a God or not when I was six years ago (I was a non-believer then, it is strange but many of 'my' 'attitudes' I can see are rooted in the myself that I first can remember long ago at the beginning of my conscious life... I've pretty much always had a pretty existentalist worldview... I can't explain it but that cosmology always 'made sense' to me). I didn't even realize people really believed in the Bible (as in really believed) until I discovered the internet age 13.

But I'm pretty disillusioned with Atheism now.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2010, 06:19:41 PM »

I have to say that there was no real 'journey' except away from atheism somewhat. I remember arguing with my mother over whether there was a God or not when I was six years ago (I was a non-believer then, it is strange but many of 'my' 'attitudes' I can see are rooted in the myself that I first can remember long ago at the beginning of my conscious life... I've pretty much always had a pretty existentalist worldview... I can't explain it but that cosmology always 'made sense' to me). I didn't even realize people really believed in the Bible (as in really believed) until I discovered the internet age 13.

But I'm pretty disillusioned with Atheism now.

Out of interest what would you consider yourself ? (and I know you're not one for labels Smiley )

I pretty much hate defining myself... so you have put me on the spot. I would say I suffer from Jaded Intellectualism towards everything (incl. religion) and a manic dislike of the pseudo-intellectual puffery that is 'new Atheism' (ie. Sam Harris, Dawkins, Hitchkens, et cetera, et bloody cetera). What I am... I don't really know. I don't think I am anything... I just happen to have alot of things.

But if want me to stop being so obtuse: non-believer. In Everything.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2010, 06:25:56 PM »
« Edited: June 16, 2010, 06:48:15 PM by The Goy's Teeth »

But if want me to stop being so obtuse: non-believer. In Everything.

Good man Smiley

How so?

I think self-confessed doubt is far more honest (and thus moral) than pseudo-belief.

On this note, while I am thinking about it, I think the English language should be changed to better suit the ambiguity of belief and 'being one's self'. We should drop 'to be' in many cases and replace it with 'to have'. So "I am a Christian" is wrong but "I have Christianity" is correct or "I am heterosexual" is wrong but "I have heterosexuality" is correct.

Just a thought.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2010, 07:22:07 PM »

I have to say that there was no real 'journey' except away from atheism somewhat. I remember arguing with my mother over whether there was a God or not when I was six years ago (I was a non-believer then, it is strange but many of 'my' 'attitudes' I can see are rooted in the myself that I first can remember long ago at the beginning of my conscious life... I've pretty much always had a pretty existentalist worldview... I can't explain it but that cosmology always 'made sense' to me). I didn't even realize people really believed in the Bible (as in really believed) until I discovered the internet age 13.

But I'm pretty disillusioned with Atheism now.

Out of interest what would you consider yourself ? (and I know you're not one for labels Smiley )

I pretty much hate defining myself... so you have put me on the spot. I would say I suffer from Jaded Intellectualism towards everything (incl. religion) and a manic dislike of the pseudo-intellectual puffery that is 'new Atheism' (ie. Sam Harris, Dawkins, Hitchkens, et cetera, et bloody cetera). What I am... I don't really know. I don't think I am anything... I just happen to have alot of things.

But if want me to stop being so obtuse: non-believer. In Everything.

     I actually feel largely the same way. As time goes on, the less certain I am that there is anything I genuinely believe in & the more certain that the bulk of my worldview is informed solely by my reactions against various things that I find repellant.

The question then to ask is: Is that a sign of emptiness?
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 04:33:04 PM »

Jmfsct I'm bored so I will debate with your logical absurdities knowing that have as much good as banging my head against a concrete head repeatedly until the end of the time.

Considering you do know something about scripture, this is a pretty ignorant strawman argument since the bible never offers “proof” to the masses, but rather the only thing it offers is the testimony of others.  Such proof would immediately invalidate the gift of faith, which would leave only works and would therefore close the pathway to salvation.

So the appeal of your religion is in its improvability. That's wonderful. You have given no reason to have faith except to point out its obvious extrinsic truth.... which does not seem like obvious extrinsic truth to me.

Imagine I am a Muslim. I hold that everything in the Qu'ran is infalliable and true. My evidence for this is... the Qu'ran which tells me everything in the Qu'ran is true. This, as I'm sure you know Jmfsct, is a logical fallacy known as "the argument from authority".

Under this argument therefore is no way of showing how one text is more true than the other. There is no way to compare texts and say one is more than the others except by a priori accepting that one is already more true than the others.

So Jmfsct the challenge therefore for you is to explain me without recourse to the good book why I should have faith and your faith in particular. I want you to elaborate for me on this very topic or else I remain skeptical.

But what you can't argue is that because of your personal subjective experience you have some superior knowledge to me that validates your faith. You can't say "I had this experience therefore I became a believer therefore God is true" because many people here haven't had that sort of experience and thus have no personal-subjective reason to believe in God. Then you will be forced to show how your own experience is superior to the non-believers here - and how can you prove that one's subjectivity is better than anothers? Why should I hold that because you had an experience (which I of course can't experience) that means I should believe? On what basis are you priviledging yourself over others... (and no Jmfsct you can't argue "Because I am believer" that's pure circular logic. You're quite good at that btw).

(A side note: Could we ever have a religious text which said something like... "large parts of this are fiction and other bits are true. But I'm not telling you which. Guess". Perhaps the Guessing would become the essential part of that religion yet unknown to man).
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 05:05:36 PM »

So Jmfsct the challenge therefore for you is to explain me without recourse to the good book why I should have faith and your faith in particular. I want you to elaborate for me on this very topic or else I remain skeptical.

your whole basis is incorrect.  Faith is a gift from God, it is NOT a choice one makes.  I can't think of a scripture that instructs people to "choose faith" because the two words simply do not go together.

Oh okay then. Then explain why God has chosen some people to have faith and not others. Surely God would prefer some select group of his creation over others (and if so then this God is pretty illogical and one I find rather uninteresting and tyranical).
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2010, 05:24:31 PM »

So Jmfsct the challenge therefore for you is to explain me without recourse to the good book why I should have faith and your faith in particular. I want you to elaborate for me on this very topic or else I remain skeptical.

your whole basis is incorrect.  Faith is a gift from God, it is NOT a choice one makes.  I can't think of a scripture that instructs people to "choose faith" because the two words simply do not go together.

Oh okay then. Then explain why God has chosen some people to have faith and not others. Surely God would prefer some select group of his creation over others (and if so then this God is pretty illogical and one I find rather uninteresting and tyranical).

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom%209&version=NIV

God is a funny fellow in the people he chooses. He might even be a racist.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2010, 04:30:13 PM »

When you deny one God, you inevitably find another.

Oh pray tell me O wise Sam Spade, what bis mein Gott?

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Yes, you are right. I miswrote that - I meant to say that arguing from a book (as the book must be true a priori) is "the argument from authority".
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2010, 04:25:47 AM »

When you deny one God, you inevitably find another.

Oh pray tell me O wise Sam Spade, what bis mein Gott?

As you should have learned from Einzige, mixing up languages to make a point does not make it stronger.

My comment above is, to me at least, the key lesson of the 20th century.

And as you have should have learned from my earlier posts, not answering the question by evasion on some minor points (OMG LANGUAGE!!!111) is not an answer. What is my God Sam Spade (in English, happy?)?

Don't buy that argument tbh.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2010, 01:42:23 PM »

Waiting for Sam Spade.... Waiting for Sam Spade...
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