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Pure Capitalism (No Fed, No govt. intervention)
 
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Reformed Capitalism
 
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Author Topic: Favorite Economic System  (Read 38609 times)
Tetro Kornbluth
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Ireland, Republic of


« on: February 05, 2010, 08:54:45 AM »

The first thing one learns in Economic History is that the question of What works? and What is Moral? are two very different things. And I'm not just talking from a 'government/big institution' policy POV (which is what mainstream economics is all about).
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Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2010, 01:11:08 PM »

Biological metaphors should be banned from sociological discourse.
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Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
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Ireland, Republic of


« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2010, 01:24:51 PM »
« Edited: February 11, 2010, 01:29:03 PM by The Goy's Teeth »

Oswald Spengler claims that markets undermine democracy in the long run by turning free speech into nothing but a tool of greed and corrupting legislators, making the vote worthless. He says free speech is nothing but an instrument of class war, the bourgeois against the aristocracy (or in today's day, that would be the 'special interests' against everyone else) As a result, a Caesar would arise to overthrow free market democracy. Spengler claimed this was preferable. Upon lengthy reflection, I disagree, and would prefer a corrupt democracy over a Caesar.

However, in light of recent events, it seems Spengler was quite right about the first part. The question is, why has American democracy survived for 234 years without giving way to a Caesar? And can it continue? It's too early to say that free market democracy has triumphed. Capitalism might just take longer to collapse than Communism.

After the Civil war how many real social crises has America faced? The 30s? The Vietnam War Era? Both of those were actually pretty tame in comparsion to Europe of the time...

Also is Capitalism really the free market? If we take Capitalism to be a historical or presently existing phenomenon then those two are really in conflict...
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Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
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Posts: 12,853
Ireland, Republic of


« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2010, 04:14:34 PM »

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Well I'm sort of taking my thesis from Fernand Braudel (and Andre Gundar Frank.. though he would later reject 'capitalism' as a label entirely, read his ReOrient for a super-revisionist account of world economic history). That is 'capitalism' refers to the historically phenomenon of the movement of 'capital' starting in Europe and reaching global scale-dominance in the 15-16th Century following De Gama and Colombus. In this account the state by manipulating the market was always an essential part of the project, only that the maneouvers of states always benefitted 'capitalists'. Consider that the first real consumer goods in Euro-American history were crops like Sugar, Tea, Tobacco, etc which were only grown with slave labour but were backed by state-run monopolies; viz. The British East India Company, The British Royal African Company, their French equivalents, etc. The market played little role in this formulation. 19th Century liberal states re-formulated their economies by liberalizing them* by they were formerly national states interested in developing national economies so British Textiles became dominant as the British State destroyed the Indian textile industry... and this continues today with the protectionist policies in the north in say agriculture reducing markets in the 'south'. If we take 'capitalism' to mean free markets or even semi-free markets no such state has ever existed.

* - yes this is economic history 101 (less than that) but a real explanation would take too long
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