Who should resign in Canada over the Waffen SS standing ovation?

[KaiserDave]

There were unaligned Ukrainian partisans, your realize.

Sure.

That doesn't make Ukrainians fighting Soviets in World War II in defence of Ukraine clearly wrong, just as it doesn't make Finns fighting Soviets in World War II in defence of Finland clearly wrong. Stalin was as evil as Hitler and, less we forget, was an ally of Hitler from 1939-1941.

"So between 1939 and 1941, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are allies. And Stalin actually provides very substantial support to Nazi Germany. So when Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June of 1941, this time it was Stalin who is taken by surprise."

At best, you are engaging in the Historian's fallacy.

Ukraine was under attack by the Nazi war machine intent on dismantling Ukrainian statehood and turning the Ukrainian population into a permanent slave class. I don't think they were defending Ukraine at all.

[KaiserDave]

There were unaligned Ukrainian partisans, your realize.

Sure.

That doesn't make Ukrainians fighting Soviets in World War II in defence of Ukraine clearly wrong, just as it doesn't make Finns fighting Soviets in World War II in defence of Finland clearly wrong. Stalin was as evil as Hitler and, less we forget, was an ally of Hitler from 1939-1941.

"So between 1939 and 1941, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are allies. And Stalin actually provides very substantial support to Nazi Germany. So when Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June of 1941, this time it was Stalin who is taken by surprise."

At best, you are engaging in the Historian's fallacy.

Ukraine was under attack by the Nazi war machine intent on dismantling Ukrainian statehood and turning the Ukrainian population into a permanent slave class. I don't think they were defending Ukraine at all.

Yes, a tough position for anybody there, since Stalin had already done that and was intent on maintaining it. But, it's probably impossible to know what this guy believed at the time. It's called 'the fog of war' for a reason.

Well he voluntarily joined a Waffen-SS regiment, so my inclination is not to be charitable.

[KaiserDave]

There were unaligned Ukrainian partisans, your realize.

Sure.

That doesn't make Ukrainians fighting Soviets in World War II in defence of Ukraine clearly wrong, just as it doesn't make Finns fighting Soviets in World War II in defence of Finland clearly wrong. Stalin was as evil as Hitler and, less we forget, was an ally of Hitler from 1939-1941.

"So between 1939 and 1941, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are allies. And Stalin actually provides very substantial support to Nazi Germany. So when Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June of 1941, this time it was Stalin who is taken by surprise."

At best, you are engaging in the Historian's fallacy.

Ukraine was under attack by the Nazi war machine intent on dismantling Ukrainian statehood and turning the Ukrainian population into a permanent slave class. I don't think they were defending Ukraine at all.

Yes, a tough position for anybody there, since Stalin had already done that and was intent on maintaining it. But, it's probably impossible to know what this guy believed at the time. It's called 'the fog of war' for a reason.

Well he voluntarily joined a Waffen-SS regiment, so my inclination is not to be charitable.

Yes, and as I said before, my inclination is to have the view 'there but for the grace of God go I.'

There have been other situations in history just as bad for groups of people, but it can't get worse than Stalin and Hitler.

And I've expressed this view on other things elsewhere at times. This has nothing to do with defending any Canadian from me, just to defend against simplistic binaries from people who either aren't aware of the history (especially when they believe they are) or who have simplified the history.

I feel like I know the history pretty well, and I feel pretty comfortable condemning the SS.

[KaiserDave]

There were unaligned Ukrainian partisans, your realize.

Sure.

That doesn't make Ukrainians fighting Soviets in World War II in defence of Ukraine clearly wrong, just as it doesn't make Finns fighting Soviets in World War II in defence of Finland clearly wrong. Stalin was as evil as Hitler and, less we forget, was an ally of Hitler from 1939-1941.

"So between 1939 and 1941, Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are allies. And Stalin actually provides very substantial support to Nazi Germany. So when Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June of 1941, this time it was Stalin who is taken by surprise."

At best, you are engaging in the Historian's fallacy.

Ukraine was under attack by the Nazi war machine intent on dismantling Ukrainian statehood and turning the Ukrainian population into a permanent slave class. I don't think they were defending Ukraine at all.

Yes, a tough position for anybody there, since Stalin had already done that and was intent on maintaining it. But, it's probably impossible to know what this guy believed at the time. It's called 'the fog of war' for a reason.

Well he voluntarily joined a Waffen-SS regiment, so my inclination is not to be charitable.

Yes, and as I said before, my inclination is to have the view 'there but for the grace of God go I.'

There have been other situations in history just as bad for groups of people, but it can't get worse than Stalin and Hitler.

And I've expressed this view on other things elsewhere at times. This has nothing to do with defending any Canadian from me, just to defend against simplistic binaries from people who either aren't aware of the history (especially when they believe they are) or who have simplified the history.

I feel like I know the history pretty well, and I feel pretty comfortable condemning the SS.

So, you are aware, as I've posted here, the Allies themselves didn't condemn non Germans who were in the SS in parts of Eastern Europe?

Yeah I am. I'm not sure why that matters right now. I'm not arguing Yaroslav Hunka belongs in a cell or should have been punished after the war, I don't know enough about him, but he doesn't deserve even the faintest praise, he was on the side of evil in the most important war.