High School Boys are Trending Conservative

[Ferguson97]

I can't really think of any obvious reason for such a gender gap that wouldn't also be reflected among adults.

You can't even really blame the internet as a radicalization tool, because the internet has been ubiquitous among high school students for at least 15 years.

I can buy that there's a growing gender gap, but not this wide and not this suddenly.

So, my guess is that the data is bad. If studies consistently show this, then I'll reevaluate. But like I said, because we haven't seen this hard shift right among adult men, I don't really buy it.

[Ferguson97]

There is honestly an easy way for progressives to fix this. If they emphasize the ways traditional gender roles hurt males, more males would be inclined to support feminist causes and thus identify as "liberal" without any loss of female support.

This is so tone deaf.  It starts from the perspective that liberals are 100% correct about these issues, and everyone is just a blank slate that needs to be properly ~educated~ and then they’ll come around to the liberal point of view.  Unless they’re bad actors, of course, as that’s the only reason this education wouldn’t accomplish its goal!

“Gender roles” developed for many reasons that you can’t just chalk up to “patriarchy!  oppression!” and young men will not respond positively to the message that they just need to stop acting like men.

But liberals are 100% correct about these issues. None of the grievances that young men have with feminism are legitimate. None of them.

[Ferguson97]

Part of me thinks the #MeToo movement might have caused a surge of high school boys to start identifying as conservative. In some of their eyes, the movement might have been "anti-male". This might also explain why that number is decreasing as of late; with #MeToo dying, high school boys have fewer perceived gender-based reasons to oppose being "liberal".

Most of the 2010s was dominated by catastrophically terrible feminist messaging that was pushed heavily by the entertainment industry and most left-of-center political parties in the west. It was a big mistake.

I say specifically the #MeToo movement because the data indicate there was a sharp decline of support for liberalism amongst high school boys from 2016 to 2018. The #MeToo movement started in 2017.

I get what you're saying. The MeToo movement in a lot of ways was the culmination of that terrible feminist messaging that I talked about.

While there were examples of guys who were unfairly accused to dismiss #metoo as “culmination of that terrible feminist messaging” is kinda unfair as it did a lot more good than harm

I didn't dismiss anything, but I believe all of the messaging surrounding it was mishandled.

But in what ways was it mishandled though?

The whole gist of their philosophy was that all allegations are presumed true.

What is wrong with that philosophy as a cultural value? We're not talking about a court of law.

[Ferguson97]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

[Ferguson97]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

[Ferguson97]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

This statement is a perfect example of how big of a failure the MeToo crap was. It doesn't even seem to occur to you that one might abstain from passing judgment until he's reviewed the specific facts of a case.

This isn't as simple as "what do you believe to be the truth in your heart", and you know it.

Let's say for example, a woman accuses a co-worker of raping her. Obviously, she isn't going to feel very comfortable being around him. It's unfair to force her to be around him every single day while you're waiting for a trial (ignoring the fact that many victims don't even want to press charges for a variety of reasons).

[Ferguson97]

A culture in which your life ends if someone accuses you of misconduct is a bad, inferior culture.

False accusations are incredibly rare - men are more likely to be victims of rape themselves than falsely accused of rape.

If a man is more worried about being falsely accused of rape than he is of being raped, then his prioritizes are skewed.

The alternative to the MeToo standard is assuming that every accuser is a liar, which is obviously problematic.

No, that's not the alternative.

Either you believe accusations, or you don't, which is it?

This statement is a perfect example of how big of a failure the MeToo crap was. It doesn't even seem to occur to you that one might abstain from passing judgment until he's reviewed the specific facts of a case.

This isn't as simple as "what do you believe to be the truth in your heart", and you know it.

Let's say for example, a woman accuses a co-worker of raping her. Obviously, she isn't going to feel very comfortable being around him. It's unfair to force her to be around him every single day while you're waiting for a trial (ignoring the fact that many victims don't even want to press charges for a variety of reasons).

They'd have to be separated until an investigation is done.

What about other co-workers who feel uncomfortable working with someone accused of rape?

What about a teacher accused of raping a student? Should they keep their job pending an investigation?

[Ferguson97]

A teacher would likely need to be put on leave. I don't know if that would be paid or not. If they are innocent then there should be reimbursement for sure.

As for the other people who aren't willing to work with someone accused of rape, that's why this shouldn't be done publicly. Another huge problem I have with MeToo is that very serious allegations are made on Instagram now. And also, what is the solution to that? If no one is willing to work with someone accused of rape then presumably the results of an investigation don't matter much. The accusation never goes away. So are people who have been accused of serious crimes never allowed to work again? Society would be much better off if this was handled professionally. I understand why the high profile MeToo cases needed to be handled somewhat publicly because they were public figures who in some cases had abused their corporate influence to get away with things a very long time, but there's no excuse for the whole office (and the whole internet for that matter) to know that Employee A accused Employee B of doing something terrible.

To get back to your initial question, the reason that this is a terrible cultural value is because you will basically turn allegations of sexual misconduct into a surefire method of making somebody disappear, which is bad for society.

It's perfectly rational to be uncomfortable around someone accused of a violent crime, especially rape. I understand where you're coming from, but everyone has a right to feel comfortable in the workplace. It's not a perfect solution, but you have to do something. Word is going to get out, and it often did pre-Me Too. Workplace politics have existed for as long as workplaces have existed. Even if you try and have the accused keep their job, it's going to have a deep impact on workplace morale and productivity. Very few people want to work with the guy that they think might follow them in the parking garage and take advantage of them.

[Ferguson97]

Its really just women changing massively for no explicable reason(60% of all college degrees go to women) and maybe a small slight reactionary shift among men but its all blamed on misogyny.

It's wild that you can come up with an entire thesis on why men have moved slightly to the right, but it is completely beyond your comprehension why women may have moved sharply to the left in recent years.

[Ferguson97]

Its really just women changing massively for no explicable reason(60% of all college degrees go to women) and maybe a small slight reactionary shift among men but its all blamed on misogyny.

It's wild that you can come up with an entire thesis on why men have moved slightly to the right, but it is completely beyond your comprehension why women may have moved sharply to the left in recent years.

There are reasons for young women to move left but a lot of them are garbage. Women form 60% of college degrees and yet for some reason as this trend continues liberals start believing women face discrimination in achieving college degrees ? Other reasons are self serving like most people do such as debt forgivable
 Young Men either don't go to college or if they do they pick the degrees resulting in better jobs to pay off debt. Meanwhile young women join college and don't pay of their debt.

Lol please don’t tell me you’re one of those “it’s harder to be a man than a woman these days” lunatics.

[Ferguson97]

This does not appeal to men who aren't already 100% in the tank for Dems. It also does not appeal to most of the men who are already in the tank for Dems. Men do not want to be lectured on how they should cry more and go to therapy instead of the gym.

Also lol, “don’t go to therapy, go to the gym”, stop watching Andrew Tate

[Ferguson97]

In the past education was not necessary as a marker of social status as today. 

This is literally the exact opposite of the truth.

[Ferguson97]

I'm honestly pretty surprised that the alt-right hasn't tried to polarize "Vampire" since that song totally blows and I could probably make a video in five minutes saying here's ten reasons why Vampire sucks, only me and my alt-right friends are willing to tell the truth, everyone else is just lying to each other because Olivia Rodrigo is the liberal left's new feminist hero and Joe Biden invited her to the White House.  7 million views within a week, guaranteed.

“Everyone who likes different music than me is lying about liking it.”

Did BRTD hack your account?

[Ferguson97]

CBT is extremely effective.

I keep forgetting that this also means "cognitive behavioral therapy"...

[Ferguson97]

For many straight young men there is very little motivation because they feel the odds are stacked againt them by women and LGBTQ.

Just because they feel that way doesn't mean that it's true.

How exactly are you supposed to respond to someone's nonsensical grievances? You can't fix a problem that doesn't exist.

[Ferguson97]

For the love of god people please start snipping quotes during these long back and forths

[Ferguson97]

Well as a teenage girl, I guess I can get a bit obsessed with teenage boys lol.

Are there any cute neo-nazis or religious fundamentalists at your high school? Must be hard for a future tradwife out there!

I'm sure there are at least a few vaguely tolerable alt-right boys at Shaula's high school. Why wouldn't there be?

I assumed (incorrectly perhaps) that she wasn't willing to settle for a semi-moderate. Didn't put much thought into it.

Unlike you guys, who seem to have your whole lives revolve around politics, political beliefs are completely irrelevant for me in terms of friendships or relationships. I have friends all across the political spectrum from communists to nazis to libertarians to woke SJWs.

You bragging you are friends with Nazis is not a good look. Like, you can have a life that doesn’t revolve around politics, but still have some ethical lines…

I'm friends with communists and the most "woke" people you could think of too.
I'm in political communities online, of course I'm gonna have some friends with some fringe ideologies, but they're all nice people and their political opinions don't take away from that.

Nazis literally want to kill you because you are trans. Why would you want to be friends with someone who thinks you are inhuman?

[Ferguson97]

I know that. I'm talking about self-identified Nazis who love Hitler and hate Jews.

If you're friends with someone who hates Jews, that means you hate Jews too.

[Ferguson97]

I know that. I'm talking about self-identified Nazis who love Hitler and hate Jews.

If you're friends with someone who hates Jews, that means you hate Jews too.

No, I'm friends with Jews too and Harbor no discrimination against anyone.

What would you do if your Nazi friends pursued their goals and tried to kill your Jewish friends?