FBI search warrant executed at Mar-a-Lago (Update: Trump Indicted!)

[Ferguson97]

Cannon being the judge is not a big deal IMO. She’s a federal judge and was confirmed by the Senate and has already been admonished by the (far-right) 5th Circuit. I don’t think she’ll act too badly. And it’s a jury trial so there’s ultimately only so much she can do to tip the scales.

Can't she just dismiss the charges with prejudice? And can't Trump waive his right to a jury trial and just have a bench trial?

[Ferguson97]

It's not the defense he thinks it is. Even if you could prove Trump said they're declassified, at best that gets you he didn't mishandle classified information by removing them. But now the government deems them classified, so they're classified, and they asked for them back, and he didn't give them.

Even if Trump WAS able to mentally declassify them without telling anyone... couldn't Biden just say he re-classified everything the moment he took office?

[Ferguson97]

Honestly if I’m Trump I’d just take my chances with a bench trial. Isn’t there a good chance that Cannon just dismisses the charges since she’s a hack?

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/daithaigilbert/status/1668264639283490819

[Ferguson97]

Every time I look at the thread title I read it as “(Update: Trump executed!)”

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1638960092501655553

[Ferguson97]

Marco Rubio was on CBS this morning with the sensible take:  the indictment alleges no real harm to national security. There is no allegation that Trump was trafficking intelligence to foreign powers, so any violation of the Epsionage Act that occurred was only by the letter of the law rather than its spirit.  Sandy Berger did something similar and only faced misdemeanor charges.

This lack of harm has to be weighed against the certain harm the indictment does to the Department of Justice, the involved prosecutors and judges, and our country at large.  As always, the ultimate judgment of Trump's leadership and fitness for office will be made by the voters; the indictment and ensuring trial won't change this.  As the ultimate steward of the perceived independence of our Justice Department and the sanctity of our democratic process, Biden should issue an immediate pardon.    

This is pathetic, even for you.

[Ferguson97]

Liberals are extremely shortsighted in their all-encompassing wish to prosecute Trump.  How does this prosecution play out any other way than emboldening him and threatening our institutions?   

Conservatives are extremely shortsighted in their all-encompassing wish to pardon Trump. How does declaring Trump (and any other President) to be completely above the law play out any other way than emboldening him and threatening our institutions?

[Ferguson97]

What boxes are you talking about?  Is there any indication that Trump has been asked to return anything beyond what he had already surrendered?  

lol, lmao

Lol. Lmao. Does he have any shame at all?

This reporting does not indicate that Trump was, as you say, "intent" on keeping classified information at Mar-A-Lago.  Quite the opposite, actually!  He had already voluntarily returned 15 boxes of documents to the National Archives in January.  If the FBI had reason to suspect that there were additional documents at Mar-a-Lago that still needed to be surrendered, it is not apparent why they needed to be seized in a raid instead of collected cooperatively (as before) or through the use of a subpoena. 

No one is saying Trump is above the law. 

[Ferguson97]

Marco Rubio was on CBS this morning with the sensible take:  the indictment alleges no real harm to national security. There is no allegation that Trump was trafficking intelligence to foreign powers, so any violation of the Epsionage Act that occurred was only by the letter of the law rather than its spirit.  Sandy Berger did something similar and only faced misdemeanor charges.

This lack of harm has to be weighed against the certain harm the indictment does to the Department of Justice, the involved prosecutors and judges, and our country at large.  As always, the ultimate judgment of Trump's leadership and fitness for office will be made by the voters; the indictment and ensuring trial won't change this.  As the ultimate steward of the perceived independence of our Justice Department and the sanctity of our democratic process, Biden should issue an immediate pardon.   

This is pathetic, even for you.

Thank you!

Liberals are extremely shortsighted in their all-encompassing wish to prosecute Trump.  How does this prosecution play out any other way than emboldening him and threatening our institutions?   
   

Conservatives are extremely shortsighted in their all-encompassing wish to protect Trump.

Prosecution was the only possible endgame after Trump repeatedly failed to return the documents when asked nicely, even to the point of defying a grand jury subpoena -- a courtesy that ordinary citizens would not be given; if you or I had committed similar offenses, we would already be looking out between the bars.  Failure to follow through would be sending a message to every foreign intelligence service that there was a big, easy target available.

Also, failure to prosecute would threaten our institutions more than prosecuting would.  It would establish the precedent that the rule of law doesn't matter; former Presidents can thumb their noses at laws they don't like.  Turn this around: suppose that Joe Biden, at the end of his Presidency, takes home a load of sensitive government documents (which by definition ARE NOT personal documents -- read the Presidential Records Act's definition of personal documents if you don't believe me) and defies efforts by the government to retrieve them.  Are you saying it would be perfectly OK for Biden to do that?

What Trump is charged with doing isn't unprecedented.  Presidential candidates have retained/transmitted classified information improperly before and the decision was made not to prosecute them.  In contrast to your suggestion, *great* deference has been given to Americans alleged to have mishandled classified documents as long as there was no attempt to pass the info along to foreign adversaries. 

The decision whether or not to maximally prosecute Trump has to be considered in light of the real consequences it poses to our elections and our institutions, not with highfalutin appeals to ephemeral "norms" that never seem to apply cross-partisanly.  Prosecuting Trump puts the DOJ in the necessarily political position of advancing and publically arguing a case against a presidential candidate during an election year.  It gives Trump and opponents of democracy the exact ammunition they crave:  that the impenetrable powers of the "Deep State" are being harnessed against a populist hero.  If Trump somehow still manages to win after all of this, he will attempt to pardon himself and the legality of such will have to be ruled upon by the Supreme Court, thus continuing the degradation of our institutions ad infinitum.  Only President Biden is able to preempt this devolution of events by sustaining precedent, pardoning Trump, and then going-on to defeat him fairly in 2024. 

Explain to us why presidential candidates should be above the law.

[Ferguson97]

It’s honestly hilarious to see Trump freaks suddenly being very concerned for our institutions. These are people we live with every day! Real people think like this!

Especially considering Del Tacky is a DeSantis guy. He should be all over this, demanding that Trump drop out!

[Ferguson97]

Marco minimizes the gravity of obstruction of justice and lying, and asking others to lie. Very sad.

An otherwise intelligent and informed chap, Del Tachi (and posters should stop calling him names by the way - that is infra dig and brands one as immature), implies that Trump because he is a VIP and otherwise his deranged and violence prone supporters might tear this country apart, is a predicate as to why he should skate. That persuades me about as much as Putin should be given whatever he wants, because otherwise he will press the button. Everything for defense, and not one cent for tribute, is what I think about that.

We are treating him with the exact level of respect that he has earned.

[Ferguson97]

The only question now is whether or not we are going to prosecute a presidential candidate in the midst of a campaign.  If you believe Trump can be defeated fairly, you are better off leaving it at that and not putting the outcome at risk to allegations of interference and impropriety.  

Why do you keep trying to frame this like it's all an attempt by liberals to harm Trump's electoral prospects?

Trump should still be prosecuted even if he loses in 2024 and the trial extends beyond the election.

This is about one thing and one thing only: holding Trump accountable for breaking the law.  

Prosecutions for murder are a retributive action to correct a wrong, a much more serious wrong than simply improperly retaining some boxes of paper.  The case against Trump is necessarily esoteric.    

I love it when conservatives try to downplay the crimes that their side commits by describing them as broadly as possible. It's like saying all Mohamed Atta did was "improperly fly a plane".


You aren't even supporting Trump in the primary. Why are you embarrassing yourself like this?

[Ferguson97]

How can you have any meaningful argument with blue avatars who are putting their fingers in their ears and go "LALALALALA!!!"?
These people need cult deprogramming, not respect.

It depends on the person IMO. People like Del Tachi know that what they're saying is nonsense, which is arguably worse.

[Ferguson97]

I am looking forward to the surrender & first appearance & arraignment tomorrow.

I desperately want a mugshot, but I know it probably won't happen.

[Ferguson97]

Yeah arrest photos in the Federal system are not publicly released.

Well if there is a mug shot, I imagine Trump's legal team will release it of their own volition. My assumption was that there won't be one at all.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1668684748296798208

I'm not a lawyer, is whataboutism a legal defense?

[Ferguson97]

If you go to that lawyer's website, weird ads occasionally pop up. Me thinks she is not the most impressive attorney if that is what her website is...

Maybe this is all a gambit to get off on an insufficient counsel appeal...

[Ferguson97]

Marco is spiraling

https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1668682090710290433

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1668704908592160768

What does this mean?

[Ferguson97]

MSNBC: Trump released on his own recognizance, no restrictions on travel (including internationally), only restriction is a no-contact order for certain witnesses.

[Ferguson97]

I mean he is always surrounded by secret service agents so he really can’t make a run

The Secret Service's only job is to prevent Trump from being hurt/killed, they're under no obligation to stop him from fleeing the country.

[Ferguson97]

Is Alan Dershowitz one or both? 

Alan Dershowitz is one of the least trustworthy "lawyers" on the planet lmao

[Ferguson97]

The only scenarios where Trump isn't found guilty:

• Cannon is a hack and throws out the charges/dismisses damning evidence.
• MAGA jurors refuse to find him guilty.
• Trump literally dies before the end of the trial.
• The trial isn't over until after the election, Trump wins the election, and pardons himself.
  

[Ferguson97]

I don't understand how his lawyers haven't advised him to shut the hell up about this on social media. All of this is going to be entered in as evidence.

[Ferguson97]

I could argue as a defense lawyer for Trump that my client isn't competent enough to participate in his own defense, and it might actually work, quite honestly.

Yeah, that'll work out great for the campaign, a court ruling that Trump is incompetent.