L.A. Mormon temple closed after suspicious envelope arrives in mail

[Verily]

The actions of the leadership of the Mormon church were certainly rather nasty. However, the protests against the faith as a whole (and specifically the protesting of temples) is completely uncalled for. To think that the LDS is some sort of homogeneous group that is entirely supportive of what the Utah leadership did is extremely short-sighted. There are many in the LDS that are not supportive of what happened. And protesting any sort of house of religion when people are going to worship is just a low tactic, IMO.

The proper response to the actions of the LDS leadership would be to specifically protest the headquarters of the church and the leaders of the church. To attack and blame the faith as a whole is, in my opinion, bigoted.

I have neither seen nor heard anything about protests against "the faith as a whole"; the anti-Mormon bigotry is quite a myth. A very small minority of people have said anything at all against even the Mormon leadership; almost no one has blamed Mormons as a whole. One sensational quote cited on television does not widespread bigotry make.

As for the LDS leadership, it is frankly juvenile to think anything other than that it was a coordinated strategy on the part of the church including the highest leaders of the faith. Done behind closed doors, of course, and in enough secrecy that they can't be easily found to have coordinated the whole thing--and any investigation can be conveniently prevented by further accusations of anti-Mormon bigotry, plus the illogical special status granted to religious institutions in this country. The Mormon church is one of the best at this sort of disgusting dealing; only Scientology of religions of size is better (although the Southern Baptists are at least comparable in organization). I don't think you disbelieve that the LDS leadership planned and coordinated the anti-gay marriage campaign with the wealthiest members of the church, but this is worth getting out there.

In any case, "suspicious white powder" is kind of ridiculous.Since 2002, it always turns out to be baby powder or salt or something innocuous put there to make a news splash, not any serious attack on anyone. (Afleitch also raises a point to be skeptical on: White powder has become such a cliche that it is more likely to be used as a staged attack than as a real one.)

[Verily]

The actions of the leadership of the Mormon church were certainly rather nasty. However, the protests against the faith as a whole (and specifically the protesting of temples) is completely uncalled for. To think that the LDS is some sort of homogeneous group that is entirely supportive of what the Utah leadership did is extremely short-sighted. There are many in the LDS that are not supportive of what happened. And protesting any sort of house of religion when people are going to worship is just a low tactic, IMO.

The proper response to the actions of the LDS leadership would be to specifically protest the headquarters of the church and the leaders of the church. To attack and blame the faith as a whole is, in my opinion, bigoted.

I have neither seen nor heard anything about protests against "the faith as a whole"; the anti-Mormon bigotry is quite a myth. A very small minority of people have said anything at all against even the Mormon leadership; almost no one has blamed Mormons as a whole. One sensational quote cited on television does not widespread bigotry make.

Umm... no. I was at a No on Prop 8 rally in Seattle yesterday, and there were dozens of signs that things to the effect of "LDS stop the hate", "I only want one gay marriage" or other things to that effect. The anti-Mormon attitude is also prevalent on many of the liberal blogs, and has spawned such videos as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv_4A1RbA-o

Add that on to the protests at temples that we've seen across the country, and there is clearly a targeted anger at the Mormon faith. To claim otherwise simply isn't being factual.

I fail to see the anti-Mormon message in any of what you posted, in the advertisement because there were numerous cases reported of that actually happening (well, not really, but ads exaggerate by their nature), and in "LDS stop the hate" because that's not an anti-Mormon message. But okay.

The ad is dumb and a poor campaigning strategy, but it's not bigoted. There were cases during the campaign of anti-Prop 8 people taking Mormon missionaries to court over using their positions as official advocates of Mormonism to campaign for Prop 8.

[Verily]

The actions of the leadership of the Mormon church were certainly rather nasty. However, the protests against the faith as a whole (and specifically the protesting of temples) is completely uncalled for. To think that the LDS is some sort of homogeneous group that is entirely supportive of what the Utah leadership did is extremely short-sighted. There are many in the LDS that are not supportive of what happened. And protesting any sort of house of religion when people are going to worship is just a low tactic, IMO.

The proper response to the actions of the LDS leadership would be to specifically protest the headquarters of the church and the leaders of the church. To attack and blame the faith as a whole is, in my opinion, bigoted.

I have neither seen nor heard anything about protests against "the faith as a whole"; the anti-Mormon bigotry is quite a myth. A very small minority of people have said anything at all against even the Mormon leadership; almost no one has blamed Mormons as a whole. One sensational quote cited on television does not widespread bigotry make.

Umm... no. I was at a No on Prop 8 rally in Seattle yesterday, and there were dozens of signs that things to the effect of "LDS stop the hate", "I only want one gay marriage" or other things to that effect. The anti-Mormon attitude is also prevalent on many of the liberal blogs, and has spawned such videos as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv_4A1RbA-o

Add that on to the protests at temples that we've seen across the country, and there is clearly a targeted anger at the Mormon faith. To claim otherwise simply isn't being factual.

I fail to see the anti-Mormon message in any of what you posted, in the advertisement because there were numerous cases reported of that actually happening, and in "LDS stop the hate" because that's not an anti-Mormon message. But okay.

Please provide me with a source that indicates that Mormons actually broke into someones home and took their marriage license.

I don't understand how you can't see how mocking a faith and targeting the masses who follow it even if they did nothing to actively support the proposition and even if they oppose the proposition is bigoted. That's like protesting French businesses in America because of a policy that the French government supported.

I clarified my post; there were Mormon missionaries actively campaigning for Prop 8 (and they got in legal trouble for it). So, while the advertisement is an exaggeration (i.e., no one broke into homes and destroyed marriage licenses), it's not false in the sense that any political advertising is false (i.e., there was active campaigning by representatives of the LDS church on the church's behalf).

[Verily]

The actions of the leadership of the Mormon church were certainly rather nasty. However, the protests against the faith as a whole (and specifically the protesting of temples) is completely uncalled for. To think that the LDS is some sort of homogeneous group that is entirely supportive of what the Utah leadership did is extremely short-sighted. There are many in the LDS that are not supportive of what happened. And protesting any sort of house of religion when people are going to worship is just a low tactic, IMO.

The proper response to the actions of the LDS leadership would be to specifically protest the headquarters of the church and the leaders of the church. To attack and blame the faith as a whole is, in my opinion, bigoted.

I have neither seen nor heard anything about protests against "the faith as a whole"; the anti-Mormon bigotry is quite a myth. A very small minority of people have said anything at all against even the Mormon leadership; almost no one has blamed Mormons as a whole. One sensational quote cited on television does not widespread bigotry make.

Umm... no. I was at a No on Prop 8 rally in Seattle yesterday, and there were dozens of signs that things to the effect of "LDS stop the hate", "I only want one gay marriage" or other things to that effect. The anti-Mormon attitude is also prevalent on many of the liberal blogs, and has spawned such videos as this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv_4A1RbA-o

Add that on to the protests at temples that we've seen across the country, and there is clearly a targeted anger at the Mormon faith. To claim otherwise simply isn't being factual.

I fail to see the anti-Mormon message in any of what you posted, in the advertisement because there were numerous cases reported of that actually happening, and in "LDS stop the hate" because that's not an anti-Mormon message. But okay.

Please provide me with a source that indicates that Mormons actually broke into someones home and took their marriage license.

I don't understand how you can't see how mocking a faith and targeting the masses who follow it even if they did nothing to actively support the proposition and even if they oppose the proposition is bigoted. That's like protesting French businesses in America because of a policy that the French government supported.

I clarified my post; there were Mormon missionaries actively campaigning for Prop 8 (and they got in legal trouble for it). So, while the advertisement is an exaggeration (i.e., no one broke into homes and destroyed marriage licenses), it's not false in the sense that any political advertising is false (i.e., there was active campaigning by representatives of the LDS church on the church's behalf).

While it's bad that that occurred, it's still taking the actions of a small minority and directing the anger about it towards an entire faith. Mission leaders also have significant authority as to what they direct the missionaries to do (some even give away prizes or rewards to missionaries who can convert the most), and this very well could be a case of a mission leader or two undertaking misguided actions.

I didn't say it wasn't stupid. It's just not bigotry. Ultimately, the organized LDS church was using its resources on the campaign. Insofar as missionaries are official representatives of the LDS church, they are reasonable targets for mockery and/or campaigning if the desire is to mock or campaign against the organized church's campaigns. That's not an effective strategy, and it's definitely off-putting to a lot of people (including me), but it's not the same as declaring that all Mormons deserve to die, or something equivalently bigoted. It's just using an ad hominem attack (except the "hominem" is the Mormon church rather than a person).

FTR, I don't think the French fry renaming and whatnot was bigotry either, just stupidity. Although the metaphor isn't all that strong anyway.