July 4th makes me sick (user search)
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  July 4th makes me sick (search mode)
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Author Topic: July 4th makes me sick  (Read 7212 times)
Verily
Cuivienen
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Posts: 16,663


Political Matrix
E: 1.81, S: -6.78

« on: July 05, 2008, 06:18:58 PM »

I don't like fireworks all that much, but damn it, I love my country, right or wrong.

And that, folks, is exactly the problem.

I generally agree with a lot of what has been said on this thread. On the face of it, there isn't anything wrong with acknowledging that the United States has been a great place and has, through its existence, made other parts of the world better as well. In fact, it would seem to be a good thing. However, such sentiments tend strongly towards cultivating the notion that the United States is somehow superior, or inherently better, neither of which is true, and also creates complacency towards the very goodness we are supposed to epitomize.

Nationalism, even patriotism, is dangerous for that reason. Many people, I would go so far as to say most people, are completely incapable of understanding that past greatness does not imply present greatness or future greatness. Moreover, they tend to believe that pride in one's institutions also means being uncritical of them, as if they cannot be improved. This is not only an American phenomenon, to be certain; it exists in China as cultivated by the government, in Japan as pride in the emperor, manifest by far-right political parties in Europe, etc. But it is an extremely dangerous one, and one I feel we could do without.

I'm just an American by coincidence, nothing more. I'm glad I was lucky to be born somewhere with a high standard of living and a great deal of social freedom, but there are places in the world that are just as good, if not better. And, even if there weren't, it would still be merely coincidence.
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Verily
Cuivienen
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,663


Political Matrix
E: 1.81, S: -6.78

« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2008, 11:11:41 AM »


Well, yes, in a truly scientific understanding of the world. But that's neither here nor there for this discussion; I clearly did not have control over my location of birth, nor did anyone intentionally birth me where I was born (except as far as my parents had children somewhere where they lived, but I as an individual was not the necessary intent).

You could certainly make an argument that the forces of the Universe dictated from the very point of the beginning that the United States would exist, and I would be born there. That's a strongly fatalist approach that many people would be uncomfortable with, even the deeply religious (as mankind is supposed to have free will), but one to which I actually do subscribe. However, it's not particularly relevant to the discussion, or even to life generally: If forces determined billions of years ago dictate my exact character, no person, living or dead, has any control over those forces. So we might as well label it coincidence and get it over with.
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