If you are against Gay Marriage or Civil Unions, why?

[DownWithTheLeft]

For the reason mostly that people like you think that you are retarded for opposing it.  I can't stand the society where we live in that if you are anywhere to the right of opposing pigs marrying donkeys you are mocked and ridiculed.  I would be much more open to supporting civil unions (although not gay marriage) if I wasn't so sure what a victory it would be the left and their lunatic causes

[DownWithTheLeft]

For the reason mostly that people like you think that you are retarded for opposing it.  I can't stand the society where we live in that if you are anywhere to the right of opposing pigs marrying donkeys you are mocked and ridiculed.  I would be much more open to supporting civil unions (although not gay marriage) if I wasn't so sure what a victory it would be the left and their lunatic causes

Oh yeah that's very reasonable.

And your reponse only furthers my point, thx

[DownWithTheLeft]

For the reason mostly that people like you think that you are retarded for opposing it.  I can't stand the society where we live in that if you are anywhere to the right of opposing pigs marrying donkeys you are mocked and ridiculed.  I would be much more open to supporting civil unions (although not gay marriage) if I wasn't so sure what a victory it would be the left and their lunatic causes

Okey doke.  Explain why I'm a lunatic?

You are part of the lunatic left?  I was unaware

[DownWithTheLeft]

You are part of the lunatic left?  I was unaware

Nope, but I share their position on this issue.

You don't seriously put your pride in winning above the ethical thing to do, do you?

Has nothing to do with pride in winning.  It has to do with drawing the line, the line which has been pushed back so far its time to push back.  I'm fed up with people buying this "equality" crap, conservatives and others with some values need to stand up and stop buying this hippie BS

[DownWithTheLeft]

Has nothing to do with pride in winning.  It has to do with drawing the line, the line which has been pushed back so far its time to push back.  I'm fed up with people buying this "equality" crap, conservatives and others with some values need to stand up and stop buying this hippie BS

OK, now, backtracking, please explain why my position is "hippie BS."

In a way that involves my position, not whatever positions/attitudes other people hold, preferably.  I.e., I want to hear about why my position is "hippie BS," "loony," whatever.  Please.

The idea that denying gays the right to marry is "bigotry" or "hatred" is hippie BS and nothing short of it.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Has nothing to do with pride in winning.  It has to do with drawing the line, the line which has been pushed back so far its time to push back.  I'm fed up with people buying this "equality" crap, conservatives and others with some values need to stand up and stop buying this hippie BS

OK, now, backtracking, please explain why my position is "hippie BS."

In a way that involves my position, not whatever positions/attitudes other people hold, preferably.  I.e., I want to hear about why my position is "hippie BS," "loony," whatever.  Please.

The idea that denying gays the right to marry is "bigotry" or "hatred" is hippie BS and nothing short of it.

thank you for restating what you just said. a substantive response would be nice, though.

Substanative?  How is it not, the idea that believing marriage is one man, one woman making you a bigot is where the logic is lacking

[DownWithTheLeft]

The idea that denying gays the right to marry is "bigotry" or "hatred" is hippie BS and nothing short of it.

Yes, I heard you the first three times.

Now explain how my belief is "hippie BS," or at least how I'm a hippie.  And, no, eating Veggie Burgers does not make me a hippie.

Thinking marriage is between a man and a woman does not make you a bigot.  Refusing to explain or re-think an opinion because it makes you uncomfortable, or because it's traditional, would make you an idiot, not a bigot.  Not saying that's what you're doing, but unless you stop repeating the same crap over and over again, I have to assume it is.

More to the point:  Stop delaying your eventual ass-kicking!

I have explained my opinion, which is that I feel that if you get pushed, you push back.  Liberals have made a habit of setting the morals of this country so low, that any sense of decency is regarded as bigotry and hatred, etc.  I am opposed to gay marriage because I feel it is immoral, but I oppose it being legalized because I oppose the moral line being pushed so far

[DownWithTheLeft]

I have explained my opinion, which is that I feel that if you get pushed, you push back.  Liberals have made a habit of setting the morals of this country so low, that any sense of decency is regarded as bigotry and hatred, etc.  I am opposed to gay marriage because I feel it is immoral, but I oppose it being legalized because I oppose the moral line being pushed so far

I've eliminated the parts of your post that are total jetsam for you.  Remember, you're talking to me, not "hippies" or "liberals."

So, please now elaborate on how it is immoral, since that's the logical crux of your argument.

First of all, you can disregard the whole first part of my statement because it applies to you.  That is like eliminating terrorists supporting Israel when talking to me because I am not a member of al-Qaeda.  The fact remains, the issue of liberals pushing the line to far is a real one whether you want to accept that fact or not.  Just because not every supporter of gay marriage falls into this camp, that does not make the issue go away.

As far as being immoral, this is a personal conviction of mine.  I do not believe that God intended for a man to marry another man.  The idea bothers me, but again this is not why I believe gay marriage should be banned as I do not want my personal convictions placed on others if no one is being harmed by what they are doing.  My stances on drugs and prostitution certainly highlight that is the way I think.  But I do think that the line has gotten incredibly out of control.  I fear marriage between a man and woman is abused enough, the abuse in homosexual marriage would be even greater.  For example, just marrying your best friend to be able to handle finances easier.  I do not want the line pushed any further back, American is immoral enough, its time people with values stand up and say enough is enough.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Alcon, all I can say is that you take political forums seriously buddy

You are greatly overcomplicating this issue.

Here it is in a nutshell:
I am personally opposed to gay marriage.  I would usually not let my personal convictions deny anything to others (see my views on drugs and prostiutition).  However, this issue is being abused by the left as a rallying issue for equality and to label those with moral values "bigots".  I feel like the line has been pushed too far and its time that we stop and push back a little bit.  Civil Unions are fine with me, although I think they only lead to greater problems as one side pushes for all out marriage and the other pushes for nothing (an example I actually used in my SAT essay this weekend )

[DownWithTheLeft]

1. If your sole logical argument is "it's ripe for abuse": Where is your evidence of this occurring, and what level of real use vs. abuse would be acceptable?  How do you arrive at this "litmus test"?

The difference here seems to be agreement over what "logical argument" is.  To me, the fact that the left has pushed the line too far and its time for conservatives to push back is a logical argument.  You may not agree with it, but I fail to see why its illogical.

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I have not taken theology off the table, religion is my main grounds for opposing it.  I also that it is just plain sick, but that religious convictions conquers that.

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Defeating the left is doing the right thing, one of the main goals of the collective left is to destroy moral values and religion and replace them with an immoral secular culture.