Afghan government collapse. (user search)
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  Afghan government collapse. (search mode)
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Poll
Question: Will the Afghani people be worse or better off with the US leaving ?
#1
Better
 
#2
Worse
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 127

Author Topic: Afghan government collapse.  (Read 29297 times)
Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,892


« on: August 14, 2021, 04:24:38 PM »

If ASM had survived... everything would be different, and so different it's hard to even imagine clearly what might have happened. For one thing it would have been harder for the United States to have followed the traditional strategy (going right back to the Raj) of imposing a series of suitably pro-modernity Pashtun strongmen on the country and hoping that this time it really would bear state-building fruit. As for Abdullah... for all his faults, that rigged poll was clearly the point at which the credibility of the 'national' government collapsed amongst most minorities.

Do you think there was ever any realistic possibility, if things had been done differently, that Afghanistan could have been successfully stabilized, either as a confederation with a great deal of autonomy for different ethnic groups/tribes in their local areas, or alternatively broken up (similar to Yugoslavia) into multiple states for different ethnic groups (e.g. maybe a Pashtun state, a separate Hazara state, an Uzbek, state, maybe some more), as an alternative to maintaining the fiction that Afghanistan was a unified "country" that could be meaningfully ruled over by a central government sitting in Kabul? Some better alternative to that pro-modernity Pashtun strongman, who doesn't actually have support (or control) of the Pashtun areas, and who naturally has their popularity and the effectiveness of their rule limited in the non-Pashtun areas by virtue of the strongman being Pashtun?
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,892


« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2021, 08:42:28 AM »


It would have to be at least the third or fourth by this point.
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,892


« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2021, 03:24:01 PM »

That will be a good test of the new Taliban regime.  They claimed  that they are not out for revenge.  Calling it  Mullah Omar International Airport would be revenge.  They should just push the non-political line and call it Kabul International Airport and say something like there is no room for personality cult in land where everyone is below God and the Prophet.

I can see it now: "Prophet Mohamed International Airport"
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,892


« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2021, 03:29:00 PM »

This was an amazing run the Taliban had in what is really a political victory.  What the Taliban seems to have done to a massive leveraged political buyout in a recursive process of bigger and bigger buyouts. What they seems to have done is to make deals with various tribal leaders for them to defect to Taliban.  Then they levered that into bigger deals with higher level government commanders by convincing them that the Taliban could win and they better be on the right side.  These defections in term really created the impression of an unstoppable Taliban which turn allowed for even bigger deals with even higher level military and political leaders (like governors and army corp commanders.)  All this then ended up with the unilateral surrender of Kabul.  This entire process did involve some fighting but they were minor compared to the scale of territories that changed hands to Taliban.   

That is exactly what happened. It is also pretty similar to a significant degree to how the USA took over Afghanistan from the Taliban in the first place in 2001!
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,892


« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2021, 03:55:33 PM »

What a disaster.



Looks like it is literally from a disaster movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G8i6LojvpE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcubpWgI_dg
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Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️
The Impartial Spectator
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,892


« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2021, 03:07:49 PM »

It seems quite easy to pontificate about how Afghan civilians alone are responsible for their own destiny from the comfort of your own developed, stable western democracy

You clearly didn't pay attention on January 6, or you would not insinuate that the USA is a stable democracy.
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