Is a Senator blocking a motion by the majority "obstructionist"? (user search)
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  Is a Senator blocking a motion by the majority "obstructionist"? (search mode)
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Question: Is a Senator blocking a motion by the majority "obstructionist"?
#1
yes (Dem)
#2
no (Dem)
#3
yes (Rep)
#4
no (Rep)
#5
yes (other)
#6
no (other)
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Author Topic: Is a Senator blocking a motion by the majority "obstructionist"?  (Read 1770 times)
angus
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« on: May 26, 2005, 12:27:10 PM »

yes, of course he's being an obstructionist in that case, and no, being obstructionist doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility that he's acting in the best interest of his supporters.  A constituency, for example, may very well object to a bill congress is attempting to pass and would want its legislator to attempt its obstruction. 
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angus
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2005, 03:21:52 PM »

of course you're right.  I remember my US history prof going on about what he called "grr words" and what my sociology prof called "emotionally charged words"  Like socialism, abortion, and obstructionism.  I've noticed that the words race, racist, and racial have become that way too.  I was mentioning something about the shape of my wife's head to a neighbor, and casually mentioned that it was merely a racial phenomenon.  The woman I was talking to cast me a strange glance.  Of course my wife thought nothing of it, as she is no more politically correct than I.  My advice:  don't worry about political correctness unless you're running for office.  If you want to say something, say it.  Pick that word that you know denotes the thing you want to describe and use it. 

Let's take back our language!
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angus
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2005, 04:38:08 PM »

The 44 Democrats in the Senate represent the majority (just look at the populations of the states they represent).

an interesting, but irrelevant, point.  and no one is convinced that it's even accurate.  first, it assumes senators represent every man, woman, and child in his state, whether a citizen or not.  second, it's open to debate how you'd count the population in states which have two senators from two parties.  third, majority doesn't mean much till you follow it with a prepositional phrase, and the working phrase here, according to law, tradition, and, hopefully, what you were taught in your school, is "of the senators" and not "of the people"
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angus
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2005, 04:44:05 PM »

and, unless you have been under a rock for the past twenty years, you know how unreliable those are.  in fact, a good deal of time is spent by the congress to figure out how to "count" people.  on the other hand, most of us can count to a hundred.  and a majority of one hundred, if quantized into indivisible units, is 51 or more.

anyway, I can show you the word republic sometime, and its definition.  you do not live in a democracy, and you know that.

the philosophical problems with your post are many, but are not unlike the typical ruses used by your party (and mine!) to mislead the people.  but we can be honest here.  as a practical matter, your party is the minority party.  Shumer will tell you that.  Reid will tell you that.  this is not misunderstood by anyone, apparently, except you.
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angus
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2005, 04:55:51 PM »

anyway, look, I don't have any philosophical problems with obstructionism.  I argued vehemently with my colleagues in the late 90s, for example, that "obstruction of justice" was not, in my opinion, an impeachible offense.  I have actively campaigned to obstruct the construction of a cement manufacturing facility in my town unless it agreed to use scrubbers and filters to remove pyrazines and dioxins and various other carcinogenic and mutagenic substances from the stacks.  There is an obstruction, in the form of a curb, near where I often park in order to keep cars off the sidewalk.  And, more relevantly, if the republicans want to ram through an insane attorney or mass murderer the democrats are morally and ethically right to attempt to obstruct his confirmation to the court.  this is relevant to the thread.

I'm not sure arguing over the definition of "majority" is relevant to the thread, but I will remind you that unlike, say, Canada and Germany, the United States (like France and Mexico) is a republic.  I'm sure you know this.  you seem like a well-educated young man.  but we all get carried away sometimes.  I do as well.  sometimes my party gets itself into the most ridiculous and insupportable positions, and I find myself on this forum posting all sorts of sh**t in the name of bullying the opposition.  then I catch myself.  I back off.  I realize what I'm doing.  There's nothing wrong with the occasional reality check.  I think that's what happened with the "gang of 14" for example. 
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angus
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« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2005, 12:16:19 PM »

you're not talking bolton are ya? 

my guess is that if both the minority and majority leaders released their caucuses to vote at will, and the ballot was totally secret, then he'd probably get between 30 and 40 votes.

Don't compare Bolton-as-Diplomat to Owens-as-Justice.  It's like comparing apples to..., well, papayas or something.
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