The North American Union (user search)
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Question: Freedom Idea or Horrible Idea?
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Total Voters: 44

Author Topic: The North American Union  (Read 3172 times)
angus
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« on: April 28, 2013, 08:42:35 AM »

The EU has been having quite a bit of trouble lately.  While a NAU is a cool idea that I would definitely be open too it, the logistics of it are a nightmare. 

a North American union already exists, although it is usually called the United States of America.  It is like the European Union in many ways.  There is one common currency in the North American Union.  The North American Union is large, with a land area about twice the size of the European Union and a population about 2/3 that of the European Union.  It also has a disproportionately large aggregate GDP.  About 15 trillion dollars annually, the same as the European Union.  They even have the same initials.  In Spanish the United States is Estados Unidos and in French it is Etats Unis, so both of those languages would abbreviate the North American Union as EU.  Although, technically speaking the European Union in those two languages would be abbreviated UE (for Unión Europea in Spanish and Union Europeénne in French.)

The are also different in many ways.  The North American Union has been around for a very long time.  It was founded in 1787, with the ratification of the US Constitution, whereas the European Union gradually evolved beginning in 1957 with the Treaty of Rome.  Also, the North American Union, which I shall henceforth call the US, has a more homogeneous language system.  In the US, you see official documents and signs posted in maybe 3 or 4 languages, rather than 12.  The US also a legal system which trumps the legal systems of its constituent states.  In fact, the phrase "the United States is" had fully supplanted the phrase "these United States are" in the popular press by about 1840, more than two decades before the question of states' rights versus strong central government was settled by the sword.  This is important.  If you are going to have a common currency, then you must also have the ability to set policy.  The central government cannot loan money to member states on promises that those states may choose or may not choose to keep.  This is probably the biggest difference between the two Unions, and it is the reason that the US will not have the troubles to which you tacitly refer.
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angus
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2013, 09:44:49 AM »
« Edited: April 28, 2013, 11:30:56 AM by angus »

I don't understand why everybody is so against Mexico joining our theoretical NAU.  Sure, the first decade might hurt a little, but in in the long run it would be beneficial to both Americans and Mexicans.  Especially Mexicans.  And why stop there?  Central America would be an obvious next step.  I'm not sure if going into South America would work, but maybe a few decades after Panama joins up...

Mexicans ought to have a say in the matter.  First, they do not necessarily consider themselves North American.  In the weird Spanish (and French) geography system, there aren't two continents here.  They just have Africa, Antartica, Australia, Europe, Asia, and America.  Why they would separate the Eurasian continent into two, but not the more obvious two American continents, I don't know, but they do.  (Obviously it harkens back to a time before even those European cultures existed, when the Mediterranean was the world.  By the time people understood the planet's geography, it was too late to change the language.  English, being a newer language, adapted more easily.)  We have the English geographical system ingrained in our heads:  There is a lamb chop-shaped South America and a pork chop-shaped North America, joined at the Darien rainforest in southern Panama, and it seems reasonable, but the Mexicans do not see it that way.  Moreover, when they do think about North America (as opposed to Latin America), they see its southern border as the Rio Bravo del Norte (what we call the Rio Grande).  In fact, Mexicans usually refer to our country is Estados Unidos de Norteamérica (Spaniards do so to a lesser extent, but that name also exists there, alongside Estados Unidos de América).  In all cases, norteamericano, when uttered by a Mexican, refers specifically to gringos.  

Why would any self-respecting Mexican politician support such an idea?  The Mexicans have a history distinct from Spain, and as old as Spain, and much older than that of the United States.  They have a culture distinct from the United States as well.  They also have a political ideology that generally is to the left of that of the US.  In general, they are more collectivist.  Their biggest problems arise from European colonialism and the huge US appetite for drugs.  Why in the world would they want to be a part of the imperialist system that shat upon them and has caused so much grief for so long?  I would want a good relationship with the US, of course, but I do not think I would want to join the United States if I were a Mexican.

Canadians, on the other hand, are like us.  They really don't have a culture or history distinct from their European identities.  Not really, since most indigenous peoples in both our countries were killed off by disease or herded into reservations.  But why would we want them.  Their country is huge, but mostly it is an uninhabited, uninhabitable wasteland.  Less that five percent of the Canadian landmass is arable.  It would just be more land to defend.  Moreover, our workforce would not be particularly well augmented by the addition of Canada.  They, on the other hand, would have tremendously more economic mobility if they joined us, but there would be huge disadvantages for them as well.  For one thing, they'd be dragged into foreign entanglements and power projectionism, and they'd instantly become the targets of those who seek to harm the United States.  I do not think I would want to be part of the United States if I were Canadian, nor as a gringo do I want to annex that country.  We already have a over-sized country.  If anything, it might be better off if allowed to chop up into manageable, bite-sized chunks.

As for the idea of a loose confederation, those never work.  The "eurozone" is a band-aid.  Their Peer Review system ostensibly maintains a budgetary enforcement mechanism, but it really does not function.  One day the European Union will fall apart if it doesn't take the big step and make itself one country proper, with a central government as well as a functioning central bank.  I do not really think that will happen.  Frankly, I think that in the long run richer countries of the northwestern part of Europe, especially Germany, would be better if they cut loose the impoverished ones.  And the only reason those rich countries like France and the Scandanavian and BeNeLux countries wanted a European Union in the first place was because of a deep and abiding mistrust of the Germans.  Reasonably so, I might add.  We really don't need or want that sort of arrangement here, and I suspect more than a few Europeans are tiring of that arrangement as well.

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