If Non Binary Genders are Real and Just as Valid as Man and Woman...

[BenBurch]

People ought to be sorted on their actual gender, not the gender they think they are. 

[BenBurch]

People ought to be sorted on their actual gender, not the gender they think they are. 

There's no such thing as "the gender they think they are," only their actual gender. Trans people are their actual gender; the one assigned at birth is what society thinks they are.

I disagree.  If I "feel" that I am a fluffy unicorn, does that make me a unicorn?  Of course not.  I would be crazy to think I am, just like I would be crazy to think I am a woman if I am a man. 

[BenBurch]

People ought to be sorted on their actual gender, not the gender they think they are.  

There's no such thing as "the gender they think they are," only their actual gender. Trans people are their actual gender; the one assigned at birth is what society thinks they are.

I disagree.  If I "feel" that I am a fluffy unicorn, does that make me a unicorn?  Of course not.  I would be crazy to think I am, just like I would be crazy to think I am a woman if I am a man.  

Do you know what a strawman is?

I do, and I also know that you can't change your gender because you "feel" like you are a different gender than the one you were born as.

[BenBurch]

Okay, I wasn't trying to talk about transgender people (by which I mean ftm or mtf), which is a different topic for a different day, but it still falls within the gender binary.

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I don't deny that some people don't feel like they fit in with either gender.  That doesn't change the fact that man and woman are the only genders that are real.

why do u say that man and women are the only ones? sure they're the two main ones, but why can't there be things in the middle?

Because man and woman are based on biology while the other ones are based on feelings.  Many of these non-binary genders are also exclusive to certain cultures.  If they were real genders they would be universal.

1. they are not based on "feelings," they are based on psychology, which is real and biological (your brain is biology). they are also immutable, and your conception of yourself as a man or woman is psychological and real regardless of whether it matches your sex.
2. if you agree that non-binary genders exist in other cultures, why can't it exist in ours? if you respond that it doesn't currently exist, then why can't it exist in the future? culture changes, after all.

1: Man and woman are based on biology, not psychology, and the two genders have different anatomy.  The different anatomy is essential for the continuation of the human species.  The only social construct is the name we give for the two human genders.  Whether one says man and woman, homem and mulher, or 男 and 女，they refer to the same exact concept.  If someone doesn't act the way that the surrounding believes someone of their gender should behave, that doesn't mean they have a new gender.  If someone's brain tells them that they have some other gender, then they have a mental disorder and need to seek help immediately.  Lying to them to make them happy will not help.

2: The non-binary genders are fake in all cultures.  I was saying that if two-spirit was a real gender, then why does it only exist in a handful of cultures.  Truth is universal.  Male and female are universal.

Spot on.  You hit the nail on the head.

[BenBurch]

Okay, I wasn't trying to talk about transgender people (by which I mean ftm or mtf), which is a different topic for a different day, but it still falls within the gender binary.

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I don't deny that some people don't feel like they fit in with either gender.  That doesn't change the fact that man and woman are the only genders that are real.

why do u say that man and women are the only ones? sure they're the two main ones, but why can't there be things in the middle?

Because man and woman are based on biology while the other ones are based on feelings.  Many of these non-binary genders are also exclusive to certain cultures.  If they were real genders they would be universal.

1. they are not based on "feelings," they are based on psychology, which is real and biological (your brain is biology). they are also immutable, and your conception of yourself as a man or woman is psychological and real regardless of whether it matches your sex.
2. if you agree that non-binary genders exist in other cultures, why can't it exist in ours? if you respond that it doesn't currently exist, then why can't it exist in the future? culture changes, after all.

1: Man and woman are based on biology, not psychology, and the two genders have different anatomy.  The different anatomy is essential for the continuation of the human species.  The only social construct is the name we give for the two human genders.  Whether one says man and woman, homem and mulher, or 男 and 女，they refer to the same exact concept.  If someone doesn't act the way that the surrounding believes someone of their gender should behave, that doesn't mean they have a new gender.  If someone's brain tells them that they have some other gender, then they have a mental disorder and need to seek help immediately.  Lying to them to make them happy will not help.

2: The non-binary genders are fake in all cultures.  I was saying that if two-spirit was a real gender, then why does it only exist in a handful of cultures.  Truth is universal.  Male and female are universal.

Spot on.  You hit the nail on the head.

But he's not right. The only reason agree with his unsubstantiated opinions is your preconceived notions, not the scientific evidence, which does in fact show that there is a neurological component to transgenderism and that there can be discrepancies between the brain's self-actualisation and the sex due to the manner in which embryos develop. He is also incorrect in his implication that transition is not a useful treatment for GD. Indeed it is very rare for any mental illness to have a reliable a cure as transition is for GD (especially if puberty is repressed) and the studies that flag problems mainly point to the likes of Carpetbagger refusing to accept a social transition.

You actually admit that it is a mental illness?  Interesting.  Well, I don't think Gender Dysphoria ought to be pandered to.  But I can see that there is no point to this argument.  I don't think either of us will convince the other.