Yet Another Misunderstanding of "Freedom of Speech"

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

OK - these cases are beginning to get stupid - and this one just made me so angry, I'll be writing a blog post.  Yes, she has the RIGHT to say what she said, but she also has the responsibility to uphold hte public image of the school.  This is exactly the same as Don Imus and the "Taser This:  Bush!" editor-in-chief.

Don Imus had the RIGHT to say what he said, but CBS had the obligation to fire him because of 1) their public image and 2) the fact that their advertisers were pulling out.

The Editor-in-chief: he had the RIGHT to publish the " Bush" letter to the editor, but at the point that advertisers started pulling out, his lack of judgment was seen and  he was justly fired.

The same goes here - she had hte right to discuss the t-shirts, but when it causes people to look at the school in a worse manner, the school leadership has the responsibility of upholding the school's image and firing (or urging to step down, as in this case) leaders who show poor judgment.


In First Round, Judge Rules Against Arabic School’s Ex-Principal

Published: December 6, 2007
A judge ruled yesterday against the claim of the founding principal of New York City’s first Arabic-themed school that her right to free speech was violated when she was forced out during a furor over comments she made in a newspaper interview.

In a preliminary finding in the case, Judge Sidney H. Stein of Federal District Court in Manhattan ruled against Debbie Almontaser, who had been principal of the Khalil Gibran International Academy in Brooklyn.

Ms. Almontaser sued Schools Chancellor Joel I. Klein and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, saying they violated her First Amendment rights by pressuring her to step down after discussing the history of the word “intifada” during an August interview. She had been criticized for not condemning the use of the word on a T-shirt.

The judge said that Ms. Almontaser had participated in the interview as school principal, and that since her employer was responsible for supervising messages to the public, her speech was not protected.

Ms. Almontaser said that the intent of her words about intifada had been distorted. The judge, though, noted that she had been instructed by the schools’ public relations staff not to discuss the T-shirts.

The New York Civil Liberties Union criticized the judge’s ruling. “This is just another example of how recent Supreme Court rulings are undermining constitutional rights in general and First Amendment rights in particular,” said Christopher Dunn, associate legal director of the New York Civil Liberties Union.

The judge also refused Ms. Almontaser’s request that he stop the city from looking for a new principal.

The ruling did not end the case, however. The lawsuit proceeds to a trial based on more evidence, rather than the two-day hearing on which the judge based his preliminary ruling.

The school is the first in the city to teach Arab culture and language.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I understand free speech to mean that you can say what you want to say without legal repercussions. 

Then that would be incorrect.

Let me clarify:

You cannot be charged with a crime for publicly announcing an opinion you might have.

If you are making threats or committing slander, it is a different situation.

You have the freedom to think whatever you want about someone else, and you even have the right to express that opinion.. but if that leads to actions that harm another person/entity, then it is no longer protected by free speech.

And this harmed the entity of the school.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I hope she wins her lawsuit as well as Rutgers loses every game they play and Vivian String is the one who winds up fired.

Why should she win her lawsuit?  She stepped down for making the school look bad.  This isn't a freedom of speech issue.  This is a more extreme version, but should the following scenario get me fired:  In a press conference, I call my boss a moron.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I hope she wins her lawsuit as well as Rutgers loses every game they play and Vivian String is the one who winds up fired.

Why should she win her lawsuit?  She stepped down for making the school look bad.  This isn't a freedom of speech issue.  This is a more extreme version, but should the following scenario get me fired:  In a press conference, I call my boss a moron.

That should not get you fired, sorry Inks but you are bordering on Nazism here.  Speaking out against your company gets you fired?  Sounds like a great way to create a lot of backdoor deals and scandals. 

NAZISM!  So you're  telling me that if A.G. Mukasey today got up and said, "President Bush is the stupidest leader we have ever had.  I think President Bush should go back to first grade and learn how to speak.  While we're at it, send Tom Tancredo back too.  President Bush is so f***ing stupid!  But Laura Bush is some f***ing hot babe!  WHOA i'd tap that *ss!  Have you seen the mother f***ing titties on that little b*tch?" then President Bush would have no right to pressure him to resign.  Come on Down - you're being ridiculous here!

EDIT: when did the f word as in f***ing sensor into just "ing"?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I hope she wins her lawsuit as well as Rutgers loses every game they play and Vivian String is the one who winds up fired.

Why should she win her lawsuit?  She stepped down for making the school look bad.  This isn't a freedom of speech issue.  This is a more extreme version, but should the following scenario get me fired:  In a press conference, I call my boss a moron.

That should not get you fired, sorry Inks but you are bordering on Nazism here.  Speaking out against your company gets you fired?  Sounds like a great way to create a lot of backdoor deals and scandals. 

NAZISM!  So you're  telling me that if A.G. Mukasey today got up and said, "President Bush is the stupidest leader we have ever had.  I think President Bush should go back to first grade and learn how to speak.  While we're at it, send Tom Tancredo back too.  President Bush is so f***ing stupid!  But Laura Bush is some f***ing hot babe!  WHOA i'd tap that *ss!  Have you seen the mother f***ing titties on that little b*tch?" then President Bush would have no right to pressure him to resign.  Come on Down - you're being ridiculous here!

EDIT: when did the f word as in f***ing sensor into just "ing"?

Your comments have no parallel.  That was a profanity laced tirade that was probably in violation of some stupid sexual harrasment laws.

OK, fine.  Take out the profanity and the lusting after Mrs. Bush.  You can't embarrass your boss/comany and expect to retain your job though.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I hope she wins her lawsuit as well as Rutgers loses every game they play and Vivian String is the one who winds up fired.

Why should she win her lawsuit?  She stepped down for making the school look bad.  This isn't a freedom of speech issue.  This is a more extreme version, but should the following scenario get me fired:  In a press conference, I call my boss a moron.

That should not get you fired, sorry Inks but you are bordering on Nazism here.  Speaking out against your company gets you fired?  Sounds like a great way to create a lot of backdoor deals and scandals. 

NAZISM!  So you're  telling me that if A.G. Mukasey today got up and said, "President Bush is the stupidest leader we have ever had.  I think President Bush should go back to first grade and learn how to speak.  While we're at it, send Tom Tancredo back too.  President Bush is so f***ing stupid!  But Laura Bush is some f***ing hot babe!  WHOA i'd tap that *ss!  Have you seen the mother f***ing titties on that little b*tch?" then President Bush would have no right to pressure him to resign.  Come on Down - you're being ridiculous here!

EDIT: when did the f word as in f***ing sensor into just "ing"?

Your comments have no parallel.  That was a profanity laced tirade that was probably in violation of some stupid sexual harrasment laws.

OK, fine.  Take out the profanity and the lusting after Mrs. Bush.  You can't embarrass your boss/comany and expect to retain your job though.

I think principal of a Muslim school and AG of the US are completly different.  Also, did she speak out against the school or just about an absurd thign?

She refused to denounce something that the rest of hte school leadership denounced, and brought it up at a press conference.  She gave her personal opinion at a press conference for the school.  She did not have the best interest of the school in mind.  The same thing applies with Don Imus - I would've fired him too, not because of what he said, but because of the fact that I just lost all my major sponsors and it would now be costing me more money to keep him on the air instead of me making money.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I hope she wins her lawsuit as well as Rutgers loses every game they play and Vivian String is the one who winds up fired.

Why should she win her lawsuit?  She stepped down for making the school look bad.  This isn't a freedom of speech issue.  This is a more extreme version, but should the following scenario get me fired:  In a press conference, I call my boss a moron.

That should not get you fired, sorry Inks but you are bordering on Nazism here.  Speaking out against your company gets you fired?  Sounds like a great way to create a lot of backdoor deals and scandals. 

NAZISM!  So you're  telling me that if A.G. Mukasey today got up and said, "President Bush is the stupidest leader we have ever had.  I think President Bush should go back to first grade and learn how to speak.  While we're at it, send Tom Tancredo back too.  President Bush is so f***ing stupid!  But Laura Bush is some f***ing hot babe!  WHOA i'd tap that *ss!  Have you seen the mother f***ing titties on that little b*tch?" then President Bush would have no right to pressure him to resign.  Come on Down - you're being ridiculous here!

EDIT: when did the f word as in f***ing sensor into just "ing"?

Your comments have no parallel.  That was a profanity laced tirade that was probably in violation of some stupid sexual harrasment laws.

OK, fine.  Take out the profanity and the lusting after Mrs. Bush.  You can't embarrass your boss/comany and expect to retain your job though.

I think principal of a Muslim school and AG of the US are completly different.  Also, did she speak out against the school or just about an absurd thign?

She refused to denounce something that the rest of hte school leadership denounced, and brought it up at a press conference.  She gave her personal opinion at a press conference for the school.  She did not have the best interest of the school in mind.  The same thing applies with Don Imus - I would've fired him too, not because of what he said, but because of the fact that I just lost all my major sponsors and it would now be costing me more money to keep him on the air instead of me making money.

What's the point of having free speech at all if you don't stand up for it in the tough times?

What's the point of hiring somebody if you can't fire them for making your company look bad?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

What's the point of having free speech at all if you don't stand up for it in the tough times?

You don't exactly seem to understand what free speech is.

Free speech is the ability to say what you want without the government arresting you for it.

Free speech is not the ability to say what you want without any repercussions from private individuals whatsoever.

It is not a violation of free speech for your girlfriend to leave you after you call her a whore, nor is it a violation of free speech for your company to fire you after you publicly insult it or cause it financial grief due to something you said.

While not protecting the 1st amendment, it should be upheld.  I don't care if its law, I'm saying someone should stand up for it.

Then why wouldn't it apply to the Attorney General for saying "George Bush is a stupid scumbag who is stupider than a dog.  Ronald Reagan post-alzheimers could do a better job than George Bush."

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

While not protecting the 1st amendment, it should be upheld.  I don't care if its law, I'm saying someone should stand up for it.

Here, let me quote you the relevant part of first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech."

Congress.  Not private individuals or companies.  The first amendment imposes no restrictions whatsoever on private individuals or companies.  A non-governmental entity cannot, by definition, violate the first amendment.

You obviously misinterpreted my statement, I am saying applying the right to every day when need be.  For example, the government can't force you to smoke, yet technically a lay person can, the same example applies here.  Just because there is no law doesn't mean its not the right thing to do.

A lay person can't force you to smoke.

And you didn't address my post - you wouldn't be advocating this if Ron Paul's campaign manager said that RP was not fit to be President.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

While not protecting the 1st amendment, it should be upheld.  I don't care if its law, I'm saying someone should stand up for it.

Here, let me quote you the relevant part of first amendment:

"Congress shall make no law ... abridging the freedom of speech."

Congress.  Not private individuals or companies.  The first amendment imposes no restrictions whatsoever on private individuals or companies.  A non-governmental entity cannot, by definition, violate the first amendment.

You obviously misinterpreted my statement, I am saying applying the right to every day when need be.  For example, the government can't force you to smoke, yet technically a lay person can, the same example applies here.  Just because there is no law doesn't mean its not the right thing to do.

A lay person can't force you to smoke.

And you didn't address my post - you wouldn't be advocating this if Ron Paul's campaign manager said that RP was not fit to be President.

It is my understanding that this was not a direct statement against the school (correct me if I'm wrong) but rather something that conflicted with official school position.  That should not get her fired, if she said, "burn the school down it is useless", then I could see the case.

You're correct.  But it was something that she was told not to discuss at the press conference.