BREAKING NEWS: Up to 5 shot in possible sniper attack at Omaha mall, WOWT TV rep

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

BREAKING NEWS: Up to 5 shot in possible sniper attack at Omaha mall, WOWT TV reports - Trying to get a story - it's on MSNBC and FOX now.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Update - 1 death, maybe 2.  A report coming in saying that one suspect has a self-inflicted gunshot wound.  Possibly another in custody.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

New report: 1 dead, 10 shot.

Suspect reported to be in custody.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

AP is reporting that eight people have been killed

MSNBC said 9 confirmed now.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Last update - 8 killed plus the shooter killed himself = 9 deads.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

yet another example of a nut with a gun

Was he using a sniper rifle?  If so, where would he even get one?  I can't imagine those being legal.

That was the original story - we'll have to see what the official report reveals in the days to come.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Are there any nuts on DailyKos or elsewhere trying to draw an inference from the fact that President Bush was in Omaha earlier yesterday?

No - but all the media mentioned that he had cleared the area (probably to dispell that thought).

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Anyone know if the massacre was caught on security cameras?

Preliminary reports said yes - but I'm guessing it won't be released for a while (if at all - depending on families' wishes).

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Thank you dear Second Amendment.

Yeah, it's the gun's fault, and not the work of an evil human being.

Was he really evil though?

Why does this stuff seem to always happen in America but is quite uncommon everywhere else (I can think of only three of this types of incidents happening in Europe since I learnt to read - The recent massarce in Finland, That school shooting in Germany a few years back and Dunblane. And in the latter case it wasn't a teenager doing the shooting. This seems too great in the States in comparsion; and certainly too great to be blamed on "evil" people, whoever they are.)

Sick, disfunctional society that produces violence, a majority of miserables, lots of sexual and other frustrations, and presumably maximizes the interests of the ruling class.

The kid was evil.  He said he was sorry for what he was about to do, yet did it anyway.  He said "Now I'll be famous" - he's an evil freak that left his poor family the legacy that he was a murderer.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

I've heard (no site) that it was an SKS and that he stole it from his step dad.  Just local rumors as far as I know.

edit-verification of SKS...stolen from stepdad still just rumor as far as I know.

I heard SKS and AK47 - which their's a big difference.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

They've released some of the CCTV footage and it definitely looks like an AK-47.

If the kid thought he was a burden on the world, he didn't need to cause an even greater burden by bereaving several people.

It's just sick.

SKS's are like AK-47's in appearance.  SKS's are only semi-auto's, so I'm ok w/ them (although the dad of the nut should've kept it locked up).  AK-47's are just ridiculous - no civilian needs an automatic weapon.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

We may not have had a gun massacre in the UK since Dunblane, but gun crime still remains.

I'm well aware of that; what I was referring to the sort of deliberate pre-mediated random massarce as seen here in Omaha. When is the last time that happened in the UK - apart from Dunblane?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Does the United States have a higher quota of "evil" genes than the Rest of the world?

(Note: This should note by read that I think what he did could be excused, rather I think is what is why he did in the first place. In this regard Gun control is about as useful as plucking the teeth out of crocodiles. It is a dangerous knee-jerk reaction which may save lives of a couple of unfortunate bystanders but it is a crocodile and a crocodile is dangerous teeth or no teeth.)

The language this debate is done in the US is a sick joke, as if people on both sides of the political spectrum wish to avoid difficult questions with even more difficult answers.

No - I think other countries manage their evil people better - put them in jail or other correctional facility sooner - such as Saudi Arabia - you steal, you lose your hand (NOT that I'm advocating this, but hey - it works for them.  Again - I think their punishments are extreme, but extreme punishments work).

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

They've released some of the CCTV footage and it definitely looks like an AK-47.

If the kid thought he was a burden on the world, he didn't need to cause an even greater burden by bereaving several people.

It's just sick.

SKS's are like AK-47's in appearance.  SKS's are only semi-auto's, so I'm ok w/ them (although the dad of the nut should've kept it locked up).  AK-47's are just ridiculous - no civilian needs an automatic weapon.

You can get semi-auto AKs, but the clip makes it look like an AK. Most SKS rifles have a small clip, but he could have got a large capacity one.

I thought AK's had a switch to put it on auto or semi-auto.  But my point is - nobody needs an auto.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Are AK-47s legally obtainable (to an individual matching Hawkins' despriction) in Nebraska?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Apart from that you ARE endorsing such punishments by saying so as they stop "evil people" whoever they are. You haven't why people become "evil" in first place.

(Worth noting the almost always constant in these shootings: The shooter is a male, is involved in a major institution (Schooling, Post Office being the two obvious example) and has recently lost his job\girlfriend.)

No - I'm not endorsing the punishment just because I say it works.  If we killed off everybody over 12, we probably wouldn't have very many rapes, so that would "work" to stop rapes, but i don't advocate it.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If we killed everyone over 12, there would be no "we" to speak of. But anyway all this is irrelevant (though I doubt that Saudi punishments are actually that effective but anyway..) to the topic at hand, you still haven't told me what an "evil" person and why there seems to be more "evil people" in the US than anywhere else? If these types of shootings are to go by...

Not to mention that pretty much everywhere Europe nowadays has a more liberal sentencing regime than the US so punishment can't be the ONLY factor.. if it is even a factor at all.

Evil is somebody who knows that what they are doing is wrong ("I am sorry"), but still go out and do wrong (and even brag about it "Now I'll be famous") - why are there more?  For minor things like domestic abuse - because they can get away w/ it.  We don't have compulsory pressing of charges.  Women keep going back to abusive men for reasons I don't know why (I have family friends that do this and it is the MOST frustraiting thing in the world.

For more violent crimes (murder) - because America has become desensiized to violence.  Some nutjob kid gets dumped by his girlfriend and fired from work - so he feels like crap and wants to be famous when he dies.  Well, guess what - you're now the most famous asshole of 2007 in Nebraska!

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Are AK-47s legally obtainable (to an individual matching Hawkins' despriction) in Nebraska?

All that is required in Nebraska to purchase a rifle is an adult passing this FBI check(like most states as far as I know).  If he would have passed that (I don't know if he would have.  He did have a "history", so maybe not) he would have been allowed to purchase an SKS.  As was his legal right under the Constitution.

He didn't though, he stole it from his (presumably estranged?) step father.

I know he stole it - so some of the blame lies w/ the father for not keeping it more secure.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The kid was evil.  He said he was sorry for what he was about to do, yet did it anyway.  He said "Now I'll be famous" - he's an evil freak that left his poor family the legacy that he was a murderer.

I'm sorry, Inks, but it is at least of no use and at most patently absurd to consider individuals the cause of 'their' actions. 

So you're telling me it's not the kid's fault that he killed 8 other people?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

The kid was evil.  He said he was sorry for what he was about to do, yet did it anyway.  He said "Now I'll be famous" - he's an evil freak that left his poor family the legacy that he was a murderer.

I'm sorry, Inks, but it is at least of no use and at most patently absurd to consider individuals the cause of 'their' actions. 

So you're telling me it's not the kid's fault that he killed 8 other people?

How could it be?  He was a powerless person, socialized in a certain way.  When poors are abused thusly, we can expect that some of them will kill themselves, some will turn to ordinary crime, some will lash out as he did and then kill themselves, and the great majority will knuckle under and be good obedient servants for 50 years and then die. 

I should think if we are intellectually curious we would want to trace the source of the original socialization rather than waste time with 'blame' for the individual.  We already know that 'he' 'pulled the trigger', now lets move on to some more interesting analysis.

Poors are abused!!!!  He was an alcoholic drug addict!  It's his own fault.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

So, you don't believe in free will?  Demography isn't destiny.  A person can decide his/her own actions no matter what situation that person's in.  For example, this kid could've killed himself without shooting up the mall.

He could've slipped on a banana peel on his way to the shootout.  So?

Poors are abused!!!!  He was an alcoholic drug addict!  It's his own fault.

Alcoholism and drug addiction are merely symptoms of a larger ailment, Inks.  The monkey on this man's back was the ruling class, not mary-jane.

The monkey on his back didn't pull the trigger, he did.  And I fail to see how society forced him into murdering 8 people.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It's interesting that Inks feels the Saudis have an effective method of preventing evil, due to the severity of their justice system.

Quite indicative of an unhealthy frame of mind (where morality and legality are synonymous terms).

Did I say that I support their penalty system?

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It's interesting that Inks feels the Saudis have an effective method of preventing evil, due to the severity of their justice system.

Quite indicative of an unhealthy frame of mind (where morality and legality are synonymous terms).

Did I say that I support their penalty system?

No.  You called it effective.

Right - it is effective.  They have less crime.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

It's interesting that Inks feels the Saudis have an effective method of preventing evil, due to the severity of their justice system.

Quite indicative of an unhealthy frame of mind (where morality and legality are synonymous terms).

Did I say that I support their penalty system?

No.  You called it effective.

Right - it is effective.  They have less crime.

Very effective...This woman, for instance, will be sure not to be gang raped again after her 200 lashes and 6 month imprisonment. You can bet she also learnt her lesson when the judges increased the sentence on appeal because of the case's media attention.

Look - by no means am I advocating their punishments, but you can't tell me that they don't work better.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Effective and right, like moral and legal, are not automatically the same thing.

That's my point (I think you're agreeing with me, but I'm not 100% sure).

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Right - it is effective.  They have less crime.

Except that their definition of "crime" is so unfair that there's nothing effective about it at all.

That makes no sense.  They have more things worthy of a crime, so they have LESS freedom and crime - it's much more effective.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

That makes no sense.  They have more things worthy of a crime, so they have LESS freedom and crime - it's much more effective.

No, since everything is illegal there, just about everything is a crime, so they have less resources to actually prosecute all of it.

Sort of like victimless crimes in the US.

Harsh punishments do not mean effective crime reduction, BTW.

Then what do you attribute their low crime rate to?