The Wisconsin Cheese Showdown

[opebo]

Overtime is part of it. They all call in sick (personal days) at the same time, so the place is "understaffed," and overtime needs to be paid. They take turns. They must have a spreadsheet to manage it all. Overtime is particularly toxic, because their bloated defined benefit plan compensation gets a steroidal boost from playing the overtime game. It is really quite a dirty little nest that they inhabit.

Well its great that they can do that, Torie.  Do you propose that no one may be allowed to be ill?  Or that there be the same hourly pay for persons working over the 40 hour week?  People died in the 1930s fighting for these (incredibly meager) rights..  I'd hate to see them go just because your class wants more golden toilet bowls.

[opebo]

The people in the 1930s died for union rights in the private sector. Unfortunately they were undercut by Alabama, Arizona, Oklahoma and Texas. Wake me up when there's a UAW chapter striking at the Hyundai plant.

Actually with free trade with foreign countries the slave South is irrelevant.

[opebo]

The people in the 1930s died for union rights in the private sector. Unfortunately they were undercut by Alabama, Arizona, Oklahoma and Texas. Wake me up when there's a UAW chapter striking at the Hyundai plant.

Actually with free trade with foreign countries the slave South is irrelevant.

Why should everyone else buy American when you're buying Thai?

because I relocated

[opebo]

Why should everyone else buy American when you're buying Thai?

because I relocated

Then why shouldn't corporations be allowed to relocate their factories so as to allow them to buy cheap Thai labour as well?

Because they propose to bring items back to the United States, obviously, Gustaf.  If they wish to relocate and bring nothing back, as I do, then good luck to them.  I'm not allowed to bring back prostitutes with me when I return to the Bad Place.

[opebo]

While I'm not surprised that the public sector workers are woefully under paid compared to the 'private' sector, I am surprised at the salary levels in your chart.  Most americans make around $12-15/hour, and most people I know with master's degrees wait at table.. so the chart seems a bit dubious.

[opebo]

It says total compensation and not only that but it's for Wisconsin workers only.

That's still enormous salary.  Most people only get their $12-15/hour as total compensation, as they have no benefits.

[opebo]

Food service department at a historical attraction.

So how do you survive?  And don't you find your poverty would tend to serve as an argument near-at-hand in favor of unions?

I actually like making money, so I show up to work.  And I'm not exactly in poverty.

I get a salary and rarely go to work.  How can you imagine you are not in poverty if you work in food service?  Tell us how much you make.

[opebo]

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I could not exist like that myself. It would not comport with my conscience.

Your conscience is an ass.  I toil for my bread, but it just so happens that I toil for a more reasonable amount of time than the 40 hours most unfortunates must do.

[opebo]

It would be interesting (and ironic) if a state like Massachusetts or Maryland tries to end corporate personhood in response to this.  I wonder if that is being considered anywhere.

I think there is zero possibility of any government entity in the USA interfering with corporate power.

[opebo]

The rest of this is the fiction that public sector union pigs counterbalance anything. They don't. All they do is feed at the trough and demand more and more taxes on the working class, which is why Jon Corzine utterly gutted property tax relief throughout NJ even as unemployment was skyrocketing.

Workers don't have property, krazen.

[opebo]

If I am a shareholder of Microsoft and I don't like it, I can sell my securities and be done with Microsoft for good. If I am a union member and I don't like the union, I can quit the union, but they still have the right to confiscate as much money from my paycheck as they choose to.

Um, krazen, the analogy to selling your Microsoft stock is the union worker can quit his job and go work at some low-wage non-union sweatshop instead.  There is no coercion here.

[opebo]

Yes, that's a good clarification. I'm sure that the vast majority of Republican voters (and even probably a majority of Republican politicians) believe that what they're doing is right, because they've been lied to and fed propaganda by very rich, very skilled, very self-interested people.

I don't think so.  They don't have any idea about 'right' or 'wrong', nor any understanding or reason.  They are ugly, vile, spite-filled creatures having a gut emotional reaction against people they can see/know who are very slightly better off than them.  They envy teachers for having a decent pension, because they work horrific jobs without health-care for $12/hour.

Of course one might say it is odd that they don't envy and hate the super-rich who actually enslave them, but the clincher is they will never see such a person in all their miserable lives, and they are incapable of conceiving of them.

Ha-ha, Snicker, just kidding.

[opebo]

Got my layoff notice today.

WisconsinGurl, a qualified (teaching license) American citizen teacher can make $3,500/month in Bangkok at a any of the many very-high end international schools.  There is a huge and unsatisfied demand for this type of teacher, and you would make double what an ordinary teacher would make, because of your qualifications.  Female teachers are especially in demand. 

You will also receive a one month bonus at the end of the year and at least 2 months holiday.  Some schools will give you a free apartment.  Total compensation averages about $45,000/year in a country where taxes are about 5%, a very well located basic apartment is $200/month and a large luxury condo is about $600/month (Bangkok prices).

Obviously you can make double this in the Middle East, with much more paid for (free accomodation, etc., but quality of life in Bangkok is excellent.

[opebo]

Can someone explain to me why public unions are needed? Why can't the legislature dictate compensation levels and the voters can decide if they're insufficient, just like for any other spending?

Full post on the issue on another forum

Democracy does nothing whatever to protect workers, niclemn, and your idea that a certain amount of compensation is 'overcompensation' is baseless and subjective.

[opebo]

The reason I distinguish between private and public unions is that the government is generally seen as a much stronger force for social justice than business, presumably making it more likely that they will compensate "fairly" irrespective of union status.

That may be the general belief, but obviously 'business' can only be as oppressive as the State empowers it to be - the whole public/private dichotomy is a false one.  In a capitalist system, to expect the state to for some reason to be less rapacious than its clients is a pipe dream.

[opebo]

ore results here (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_OH_0315513.pdf )showing doomsday news for Republicans. Lesson: don't mess with unions in states with a big working class/union tradition.

Could you post some of these results or another non-pdf link?  I can't open pdfs on the computer I'm using.