The John Dule Organic Atlas Meme Archive (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
June 11, 2024, 09:51:08 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Forum Community
  Forum Community (Moderators: The Dowager Mod, YE, KoopaDaQuick 🇵🇸)
  The John Dule Organic Atlas Meme Archive (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: The John Dule Organic Atlas Meme Archive  (Read 56652 times)
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


« on: February 06, 2021, 10:47:14 PM »


Good meme, but I have a few critiques. I still stand by everything I have said about the Puritans and assert that in both England and America, their religious beliefs made them revolutionaries. Look at Samuel Adams, one of the most radical American founding fathers, who has been called "the last of the Puritans." His religious and political beliefs were in perfect concert with one another, opposing as it were tyranny and arbitrariness in all things. Indeed, opposition to "popery and slavery" was a common rallying cry of radicals in the 18th century, as the two were seen as allies in the oppression of popular rights ("slavery" as in absolutist government, not a human bondage sense).

I assume you're talking about the American Whig Party, which - as someone who is currently reading a book on the Glorious Revolution and writing a timeline on the Rye House Plot - took me a moment to realize. I have already renounced them and recognized they were "conservative", even if only in a liberal-conservative rather than Tory sense (though I still consider them a lesser evil to the Jacksonian Democrats). But in any case the US Whigs have next to nothing to do with Puritanism or Protestant liberties, certainly much less so than their similarly-named English predecessors.

I've argued that the Republicans were much more ideologically complex and cannot so easily be pinned down as one thing or another. At their founding they included liberals, radicals, and socialists as well as many conservative (not all) former Whigs. Both the Democrats and Republicans were ideologically diverse big tent parties encompassing many different ideologies, and the Democrats were not clearly the more liberal party until the time of Franklin Roosevelt. That's my view, at least.
Logged
F. Joe Haydn
HenryWallaceVP
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,248


« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2021, 02:06:06 PM »


Good meme, but I have a few critiques. I still stand by everything I have said about the Puritans and assert that in both England and America, their religious beliefs made them revolutionaries. Look at Samuel Adams, one of the most radical American founding fathers, who has been called "the last of the Puritans." His religious and political beliefs were in perfect concert with one another, opposing as it were tyranny and arbitrariness in all things. Indeed, opposition to "popery and slavery" was a common rallying cry of radicals in the 18th century, as the two were seen as allies in the oppression of popular rights ("slavery" as in absolutist government, not a human bondage sense).

I assume you're talking about the American Whig Party, which - as someone who is currently reading a book on the Glorious Revolution and writing a timeline on the Rye House Plot - took me a moment to realize. I have already renounced them and recognized they were "conservative", even if only in a liberal-conservative rather than Tory sense (though I still consider them a lesser evil to the Jacksonian Democrats). But in any case the US Whigs have next to nothing to do with Puritanism or Protestant liberties, certainly much less so than their similarly-named English predecessors.

I've argued that the Republicans were much more ideologically complex and cannot so easily be pinned down as one thing or another. At their founding they included liberals, radicals, and socialists as well as many conservative (not all) former Whigs. Both the Democrats and Republicans were ideologically diverse big tent parties encompassing many different ideologies, and the Democrats were not clearly the more liberal party until the time of Franklin Roosevelt. That's my view, at least.

Good objections, and I am aware that it's more nuanced, but I needed the meme to be snappy and not be a wall of text.

It's already the second time I feature you in a meme actually... I am not sure if you should feel glad for this. Wink

It is an honor, truly, but I cannot recommend the post because that would be tantamount to an admission of defeat. I made a "tactical concession" in the Lincoln thread mostly because I didn't feel it was worth it to continue the debate in that thread, but rest assured, I am now preparing a new post for the good old "Historical continuity of Democrats and Republicans" thread. Wink
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.02 seconds with 10 queries.