What if a Democratic candidate for VP cited Karl Marx as a huge influence? (user search)
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  What if a Democratic candidate for VP cited Karl Marx as a huge influence? (search mode)
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Author Topic: What if a Democratic candidate for VP cited Karl Marx as a huge influence?  (Read 1403 times)
Politico
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« on: August 14, 2012, 11:03:00 PM »

Karl Marx is the antithesis of Adam Smith, whose ideas are the foundation of America. Consequently, adherence to Marx is about as anti-American as you can get.
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Politico
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2012, 07:30:48 PM »
« Edited: August 15, 2012, 07:46:17 PM by Politico »

Karl Marx is the antithesis of Adam Smith, whose ideas are the foundation of America. Consequently, adherence to Marx is about as anti-American as you can get.

This might be a silly question, but have you ever actually read Wealth of Nations?

I'm pretty sure his head would explode.

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All of the above quotes are elaborated upon and put into proper context with the following excerpts (all of which are much better known sections of The Wealth of Nations because they provide the full breadth of his philosophy in a concise manner whereas the above quotes can be taken out of context in order to push an agenda that is diametrically opposed to Smith's philosophy of laissez-faire):

"Little else is requisite to carry a state to the highest degree of opulence from the lowest barbarism but peace, easy taxes, and a tolerable administration of justice: all the rest being brought about by the natural course of things."

"It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest."

" I have never known much good done by those who affected to trade for the public good."

"The real tragedy of the poor is the poverty of their aspirations."

"Every individual...generally, indeed, neither intends to promote the public interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it. By preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry he intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention."

As you can tell, Adam Smith is not against all government intervention, merely all intervention outside of the realm of defense, law/order, and basic infrastructure. He believed in strong checks/balances enforced upon those carrying out the proper functions of government. Adam Smith was an inspiration to our Founding Fathers. In contrast, Karl Marx's ideas are a threat to the Constitution. Only ignorant youth, fools, traitors and anti-American (or foolish) foreigners believe in the tenets of Marxism.
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Politico
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 08:29:15 PM »
« Edited: August 15, 2012, 08:44:20 PM by Politico »

I am not disagreeing that there is a big difference between Ayn Rand and Adam Smith, but there is also a big difference between citing Rand as an influence versus Marx. Rand is largely a pop phenomenon who, when it comes to matters of economics, largely ripped off Smith's ideas, making them edgier and more controversial in the process (a businesswoman at heart, she did well marketing her pop products). In contrast to Rand, the ideas of Smith and Marx have impacted the world more than any other individuals of the past 250 years. Smith has brought the world greater prosperity and peace; Marx has brought the world greater oppression and war. One who states they were influenced by Marx would be the polar opposite of one who states they were influenced by Smith, not Rand.

As for the rest of your post, arguing that we should move away from the philosophy of Adam Smith, all I have to say is that market forces are exactly that: Forces of nature (human nature, to be precise). Ignore them at your own peril.
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Politico
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 09:26:12 PM »
« Edited: August 15, 2012, 09:29:43 PM by Politico »

I am not disagreeing that there is a big difference between Ayn Rand and Adam Smith, but there is also a big difference between citing Rand as an influence versus Marx. Rand is largely a pop phenomenon who, when it comes to matters of economics, largely ripped off Smith's ideas, making them edgier and more controversial in the process (a businesswoman at heart, she did well marketing her pop products). In contrast to Rand, the ideas of Smith and Marx have impacted the world more than any other individuals of the past 250 years. Smith has brought the world greater prosperity and peace; Marx has brought the world greater oppression and war. One who states they were influenced by Marx would be the polar opposite of one who states they were influenced by Smith, not Rand.

What I'm disagreeing with is primarily that there's such a thing as a 'polar opposite' in the social sciences. Or any discipline, really, other than grammar and mathematics.

What is the antonym, polar opposite if you will, of the individual? The collective.

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Sorry, but scarcity is not something you can magically wish away with legislation. You certainly cannot change human nature, the result of millions of years of evolution.
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Politico
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 09:30:05 PM »

Smith has brought the world greater prosperity and peace; Marx has brought the world greater oppression and war.

rofl, joke poster

You'll understand when you grow up.
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Politico
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2012, 12:36:56 AM »
« Edited: August 16, 2012, 12:41:23 AM by Politico »

Smith has brought the world greater prosperity and peace; Marx has brought the world greater oppression and war.

rofl, joke poster
Yea, I'd like for Politico to explain how does oppression by imperialism that comes with (neoliberal) capitalism(also fascism, but the two ideas collude when you have someone like Ryan) brings prosperity and peace.

I'll do exactly that after you tell us where the computer, desk, chair and clothes you are using were manufactured. Then I want you to do some research on the lives of people in those countries. Specifically, I want you to compare their standard of living today versus 50 years ago. Then I want you to explain how things were more peaceful in the 1910s and 1940s compared to right now. Finally, I want you to compare life in America today versus in 1776.

Then you can explain to us how horrible free enterprise is while you suck down your latte.
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