SCOTUS overturns Roe megathread (pg 53 - confirmed)

[Former President tack50]

2. This is actually legally terrible. Contrary to popular belief, Roe's legal basis is solid. This is the exact sort of thing that a majoritarian legislature *shouldn't* have the right to weigh in on. The commerce clause is also fine, Dule.

Ok, so despite me being firmly pro-choice and thinking the leaked ruling is awful; this is a part I don't understand.

I actually have a very easy time imagining the US constitution recognizing some sort of vague (and honestly, not so vague) right to privacy. My issue is with the jump from "right to privacy" meaning "right to have an abortion".

There's perhaps an argument to be made about medical documents, or perhaps not disclosing your pregnancy status to your employers; but I struggle to ser how that extends to outright abortion being a right

[Former President tack50]

I do not know if releasing someone's address is a crime or not in the US; but I will say that when inevitably a bunch of trumpists start protesting at Pelosi's house or whatever for some dumb reason the people using the "this is legitimate protest" line will use it again.

I don't think that "escraches" as we'd call them are a good or arguably even a legitimate form of protest. Of course this is up for debate and I won't claim there is a right or wrong answer, but if the reverse happens with far right trumpists protesting at the house of Dem politicians, people will have a right to ask for consistency.

[Former President tack50]

Question: how long until someone (presumably a doctor) gets prosecuted for breaking an abortion ban?

[Former President tack50]

https://twitter.com/MarlenaStell/status/1542527729827995649?t=UdKZWPz9735InuWmH6...

There is a part of me that refuses to believe those stories for some reason. Don't most, if not all states have exceptions for those kinds of things? A stillborn baby seems like probably the 2nd most obvious exception to include other than "risk to the mother's health"; and it's an exception where there is absolutely no argument against it whatsoever

I will not discuss the reality of the case since it's real, but like yikes. That's either some awfully written legislation, some overly cautious (albeit for understandable reasons) doctors or both.

[Former President tack50]

https://twitter.com/MarlenaStell/status/1542527729827995649?t=UdKZWPz9735InuWmH6...

There is a part of me that refuses to believe those stories for some reason. Don't most, if not all states have exceptions for those kinds of things? A stillborn baby seems like probably the 2nd most obvious exception to include other than "risk to the mother's health"; and it's an exception where there is absolutely no argument against it whatsoever

I will not discuss the reality of the case since it's real, but like yikes. That's either some awfully written legislation, some overly cautious (albeit for understandable reasons) doctors or both.

IIRC most state bans dont even consider ectopic/already dead fetus situations to be abortions.

Fair though I believe this particular case is of a fetus that will be born alive, albeit with terrible congenital defects that will just lead to him/her dying within a few weeks or months in excruciating pain

[Former President tack50]

What I am trying to say is that just because a trait is dominant in the reproducing population doesn’t necessarily mean it will become the dominant trait in society. You do have a point about there being a DARE-style War on Abortion in Red States, but it didn’t really work with drugs. It was obvious propaganda back then and it will probably be obvious propaganda now.

By “obvious propaganda”, I meant that you will believe that marijuana or sex will kill you or you will go to jail for it but only until you are old enough to not believe everything you are told.

DARE style programs with abortion. That will be interesting to see. I think I made or try to make a thread about it. The only taker was either a Spanish or Portuguese poster who said that their experience wouldn’t be analogous because it was under a fascist regime.

That is probably me, but despite all the propaganda from our fascist dictatorship (including pro-natalist and "traditional gender roles" propaganda) I don't think abortion was a big issue at all.

[Former President tack50]

What I am trying to say is that just because a trait is dominant in the reproducing population doesn’t necessarily mean it will become the dominant trait in society. You do have a point about there being a DARE-style War on Abortion in Red States, but it didn’t really work with drugs. It was obvious propaganda back then and it will probably be obvious propaganda now.

By “obvious propaganda”, I meant that you will believe that marijuana or sex will kill you or you will go to jail for it but only until you are old enough to not believe everything you are told.

DARE style programs with abortion. That will be interesting to see. I think I made or try to make a thread about it. The only taker was either a Spanish or Portuguese poster who said that their experience wouldn’t be analogous because it was under a fascist regime.

That is probably me, but despite all the propaganda from our fascist dictatorship (including pro-natalist and "traditional gender roles" propaganda) I don't think abortion was a big issue at all.

I thought it was. Generally, I shy away from pointing people out anymore.

So I’m guessing they taught kids in school to go be moms and stuff like that.

Yeah pretty much. Very strict gender roles and what not, as well as legal discrimination against women (ie, "women can't open a bank account or work without permission from their husband or father" and what not). Along the usual propaganda and hardline Catholicism. But abortion played at best an extremely secondary role. Remember the dictatorship fell in 1975, so even in the US abortion had only been legalized at the very end of that.

[Former President tack50]

These doctors are terrified that a prosecutor and jury who just don't understand medicine very well will send them to long-term jail. We're in for a rough decade or more.

To me this seems that either more clear laws, better lawyers or most likely both are needed. Tbh I am extremely surprised at stories like that foa a variety of reasons; most notably that even when abortion was illegal here, any doctor that was even remotely reasonable would have given a woman in such a situation an abortion.

Now that I think about it, you know all those left wing states trying to position themselves as "abortion havens" or whatever? If they actually wanted to help, they should probably make it so any doctor that ends up in a trial in a state where abortion is illegal, gets a medical license on their state and help with relocation.