MN-05: Not a topic about Israel, thank you very much

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

If Omar wins the primary (and with that, the general), Congress should refuse to seat her.

Wow, over a f#cking tweet?  Good to know Libertarians still care about the Constitution.

Libertarianism has been a thin veil of highmindedness over a lot of ugly subconscious sentiments basically since the party came around in the 1970s.

(of which I'm sure you're aware, but ya know.)

So, you two would have been fine if Roy Moore would have been seated in the Senate had he beaten Doug Jones?

Of course, fair and square.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

I am thrilled with this result. Ilhan Omar will make a great congresswoman, and her tweet is great! Can't wait to have our first Muslim woman as a member of congress, this country is progressing fast!

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Oh, and endorsed!

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

I am thrilled with this result. Ilhan Omar will make a great congresswoman, and her tweet is great! Can't wait to have our first Muslim woman as a member of congress, this country is progressing fast!

Rashida Tlaib strikes me as better, as far as Muslim women go.

May be true, but Omar basically has this locked down, while MI 13th will probably select Ian Conyers as the nominee.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Shish, (changed it for pun lol), for a bunch of justice dems y'all are quite neoconny. Omar is a bright and articulate individual who made great statements on twitter, and my only criticism was that she did not go far enough.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Shish, (changed it for pun lol), for a bunch of justice dems y'all are quite neoconny. Omar is a bright and articulate individual who made great statements on twitter, and my only criticism was that she did not go far enough.

Confronting antisemitism is now neoconny? I'm unable to discern how many levels of woke you're on right now.

Nah fam, not that as much as the iron clad support for Israel even among many justice dems on this forum.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Shish, (changed it for pun lol), for a bunch of justice dems y'all are quite neoconny. Omar is a bright and articulate individual who made great statements on twitter, and my only criticism was that she did not go far enough.

Confronting antisemitism is now neoconny? I'm unable to discern how many levels of woke you're on right now.

Nah fam, not that as much as the iron clad support for Israel even among many justice dems on this forum.

I'll repeat what I said earlier, then.

Israel has done enough wrong things that critics of Israel should have enough material to criticize without having to dip down to Protocols-level conspiracy theories about how the evil Jews Israelis control the rest of the world.

If you choose to focus on spreading this kind of grandstanding conspiracy theories instead of critiquing actual actions by the Israeli government — of which there are plenty — you’re not a critic of Israel, you’re an antisemite.

But, I guess you're right. Omar didn't go far enough - she should've share a selfie of herself holding a copy of Protocols of the Elders of Zion to show that she's both a friend to all Jews and a legitimate and productive critic of Israel.

Fam, regardless of your views on the Israel-Palestine conflict, just looking from an objective point of view, it is strange for so many justice democrats to be so supportive of Israel. I mean the same goes for me, a democrat, who aligns more with the Blue Dogs, and yet is strictly anti gun, more than even most democrats, it is just strange in both cases.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Shish, (changed it for pun lol), for a bunch of justice dems y'all are quite neoconny. Omar is a bright and articulate individual who made great statements on twitter, and my only criticism was that she did not go far enough.

Confronting antisemitism is now neoconny? I'm unable to discern how many levels of woke you're on right now.

Nah fam, not that as much as the iron clad support for Israel even among many justice dems on this forum.

I'll repeat what I said earlier, then.

Israel has done enough wrong things that critics of Israel should have enough material to criticize without having to dip down to Protocols-level conspiracy theories about how the evil Jews Israelis control the rest of the world.

If you choose to focus on spreading this kind of grandstanding conspiracy theories instead of critiquing actual actions by the Israeli government — of which there are plenty — you’re not a critic of Israel, you’re an antisemite.

But, I guess you're right. Omar didn't go far enough - she should've share a selfie of herself holding a copy of Protocols of the Elders of Zion to show that she's both a friend to all Jews and a legitimate and productive critic of Israel.

Fam, regardless of your views on the Israel-Palestine conflict, just looking from an objective point of view, it is strange for so many justice democrats to be so supportive of Israel. I mean the same goes for me, a democrat, who aligns more with the Blue Dogs, and yet is strictly anti gun, more than even most democrats, it is just strange in both cases.

Concerns about anti-semitism have nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine conflict. Trying to conflate the two is deliberately disingenuous and is muddying the waters of a question that has a clear answer.

I don't give two hoots about my ideology, yours, or whoever's, and it's pretty clear you're attempting to dismiss (serious) claims about antisemitism by trying to deflect via some half-witted attempt at a roast of Justice Democrats (and btw, where did that come from?). That's not how you have a normal conservation in real life and it certainly shouldn't be how you carry out discussion on a forum whose primary purpose is to address politics and elections.

Especially when you applaud such comments and encourage them, and then deliberately deflect to some unimportant issue,  you really do run the risk of accidentally dropping that "Israel critic" masque and revealing the "antisemitic" core. Oops.

Just making some interesting observations as well as congratulating a great politician having a good showing at a DFL convention, nothing too intense friend.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Just making some interesting observations as well as congratulating a great politician having a good showing at a DFL convention, nothing too intense friend.

Yeah, I got carried away... I forgot antisemitism was a complete joke, right.

Tsk, sigh, that is probably an exaggeration.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Omar is critical of an Islamophobic apartheid state? Oh no!

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Ms. Omar will, tbh, fit quite well in the same chamber with Rep. Steve King. Still, Paul Nehlen (a much more vicious antisemite, no doubt) winning 11% of the Republican votes in his district and Ilhan Omar becoming a congresswoman show why a Jewish state is crucial.

Try and chill dude lol, it'll be ok, she's not going to nuke Israel or anything lol.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Ms. Omar will, tbh, fit quite well in the same chamber with Rep. Steve King. Still, Paul Nehlen (a much more vicious antisemite, no doubt) winning 11% of the Republican votes in his district and Ilhan Omar becoming a congresswoman show why a Jewish state is crucial.

Try and chill dude lol, it'll be ok, she's not going to nuke Israel or anything lol.

I have a country to protect me from the current worrying trends in the West, so I am chill

You guys will be just fine, yall are strong and capable and have many allies, and even many heavily Pro-Palestine people like myself aren't out to get you or anything lol.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Once again those tweets were NOT AN ISSUE. the only outlets reporting on them were Breitbart-esque right wing blogs that obviously your typical MN-05 voter doesn't pay attention to.

If Minneapolis was full of voters with a burning raging desire to throw all Jews into the sea then I'd wager they probably wouldn't have elected a Jewish mayor last year.

Yeah, like I said, that's probably why Haaretz didn't even mention it. It's just not widely-known, which to me is sad because it shows the media is too absorbed in identity politics (of both sides) to raise serious issues and make politicians face them.

Look Wyman, you can keep deferring this if you want, but the stuff is stacking up for Omar. She has very strong performances in Jewish areas, she has strong endorsements from many Jewish individuals in the community such as Frey, Applebaum, Freitag, Multiple Bernie groups, etc. apparently you say Haaretz is favorable to her now, etc. You can make excuses or try and spin it a certain way for each of these points, but at a certain point, it becomes obvious where the stuff is stacking up.

Also for those of my fellow friends with a pro-Palestine sentiment, just learn to brush it off when people call you an anti-semite or a prick or a racist, and draw horrific comparisons, etc. Your beef with Israel and support of Palestine alone does not make you these things, and know this is just a talking point and a distraction.

As for people with a Pro-Israel sentiment, I want you to know that most everybody is not out to get you or wishes your country or people to be destroyed, most people like me really just want to live side by side in peace.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Israelis are told from birth that the entire world is out to get them and always will be. Hence the extreme paranoia we see from them. Israel should not legalize cannabis.

My parents are Russian immigrants, I was taught from birth to like borstch and Verka Serduchka.
And nice gall to accuse a member of a group that was, throughout the entire history, repeatedly persecuted, tortured and genocided of paranoia.

I'll make this simple- her tweet made heavy use of lies peddled against Jews throughout history. This sort of blood libel was the fuel of countless pogroms. Sorry for caring.

Look, we all have more in common than divides us, my mother is a Russian immigrant too, and we share the same God and many of the prophets, and very importantly as well, common humanity. There has been enough of this bickering and finger pointing, and it us now up to us young ones to change the culture of the world and make it a better place. All that stuff is stuff that people in a distant time and ancestors fought over, we cannot control that, but what we can control is how we choose to proceed from here, and I strongly believe that it's time for a fresh start. My great grandfather was killed by Hitler's army and my great granduncle was captured by his army as well and taken as a slave for many years in a Nazi-sympathizing Danish household, so the wounds of holocaust denial and modern nazis hurt too, and denying is something I wouldn't even dare to think of. My agenda as well as those of most of what I'd like to see done even though it is unrealistic is to elevate the Palestinian cause for them to have a better life and get both sides to accept this and live and coexist alongside eachother in peace. If you don't trust me or that most others in this camp want this as well, I'm sorry. Hopefully at some point at some time people will be willing to step up to the plate and fix this mess, but for now, I just pray that it happens.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Israelis are told from birth that the entire world is out to get them and always will be. Hence the extreme paranoia we see from them. Israel should not legalize cannabis.

My parents are Russian immigrants, I was taught from birth to like borstch and Verka Serduchka.
And nice gall to accuse a member of a group that was, throughout the entire history, repeatedly persecuted, tortured and genocided of paranoia.

I'll make this simple- her tweet made heavy use of lies peddled against Jews throughout history. This sort of blood libel was the fuel of countless pogroms. Sorry for caring.

When was the last genocide of Israelis? Must've missed that one. Sorry for caring.

[this post has been reported, but I am leaving it up because the responses effectively point out the fallacy here. I see this as disingenuous semanticism rather than Holocaust denial. --Mod Brittain33]

What fallacy? Israelis are pretty much on top of the world, some of the safest people anywhere. Jews are not all Israelis, Israelis are not all Jews, and there has never been any kind of genocide of Israelis. Hell, one soldier died and the country massacred hundreds of Palestinians in return. Israelis are not only safe, they are spoiled. As an American Jew I'm very offended to be lumped in with Israelis, especially by mods who I don't believe are even Jewish. Israel is of no more distinction to me than Peru or Botswana.

Shema yisrael, adonai eloheinu, adonai echad. (Brittain isn't my name, just a random association I picked up ages ago for a username.) I've mentioned it several times here over the years but I don't fault you for not being an expert in my background.

In any case, a large share of the founding population of Israel consisted of survivors of the Holocaust or refugees who got out of Europe during the rise of Nazism, and the Holocaust is central to Israel's identity.  

Sure, but there were no Israelis in concentration camps as Israel did not yet exist. Omar's statement was about Israelis, not all Jews. Blood libel would refer to all Jews, if it only refers to a portion (not even half), it's not anti semitic. Omar did not say "Jews have hypnotized the world." Had she said that I'd never support her, but Jews and Israel are very, very different terms. This isn't semantics, they're very different.

Oh I did not know you are Jewish, that's good. You are on the right side of history my friend, and it includes people of all backgrounds (including many members of the Jewish community such as J Street), and you see the truth by viewing Israel and Judaism as separate entities, Imma send a friend request.

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Omar straight-up said she opposes BDS, which basically destroyed Carlos Ramirez-Rosa's career.

Probably because Omar dislikes how BDS advocates for nonviolent solutions. She wants violent "solutions".

[Citation extremely needed]

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/269488770066313216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwca...
My interpretation of this tweet is that she advocates for a military invasion of Israel through Gaza.

This tweet is really just being used for everything now. I half expect this tweet to be used to justify why she wants to murder puppies.

Out of the wellsprings of the heart, the mouth speaks.

There may be "anti-Zionists" who are genuinely sympathetic to the Jewish People and their particular plight in the world, but I can never seem to find them.

When actual proof is not enough, start using vague characterizations!

[Co-Chair Bagel23]

Omar straight-up said she opposes BDS, which basically destroyed Carlos Ramirez-Rosa's career.

Probably because Omar dislikes how BDS advocates for nonviolent solutions. She wants violent "solutions".

[Citation extremely needed]

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/269488770066313216?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwca...
My interpretation of this tweet is that she advocates for a military invasion of Israel through Gaza.

This tweet is really just being used for everything now. I half expect this tweet to be used to justify why she wants to murder puppies.

Out of the wellsprings of the heart, the mouth speaks.

There may be "anti-Zionists" who are genuinely sympathetic to the Jewish People and their particular plight in the world, but I can never seem to find them.

When actual proof is not enough, start using vague characterizations!

Do you believe that Omar accepts the right of Israel to even exist?

I don't know and I don't speak for her, but what I can tell you is I accept the right of Israel to exist.