UK General Discussion: 2017 and onwards, Mayhem

[Don Vito Corleone]

I just realized the UK hasn't had a left wing government in nearly 40 years.
That is all.

[Don Vito Corleone]

I just realized the UK hasn't had a left wing government in nearly 40 years.
That is all.

Wow, thanks for this blisteringly hot take, random american.

LOL

No but really, when I first realized this I was shocked.

[Don Vito Corleone]

I just realized the UK hasn't had a left wing government in nearly 40 years.
That is all.

Wow, thanks for this blisteringly hot take, random american.

LOL

No but really, when I first realized this I was shocked.

Weak hot take. If you wanted to go further you should have claimed Wilson's and Callaghan's governments were not left either, and a true hot take master would suggest the UK, in fact, has never had a left wing government.

Not even Attlee's government was left wing! He was very, very dedicated to the monarchy!

If I was trolling from the left (which I often do, if people are being particularly ahistorical in their "left wing Old Labour/Right wing NuLabour" screeds) it is very easy to suggest Attlee would today be on the centre-right of the party. He and his allies came to power in the party by defeating Lansbury and his pacifist idealogy, formed a national government with hated Imperialist/arch conservative former Chancellor Churchill, instituted a draft and various war measures that suppressed various freedoms, led a government characterized by austerity and rationing, rejected Bevan's ideas of a broad left coalition, suppressed strikes, developed the atomic bomb, joined the Korean war and the start of the cold war machinations and still had a very suspicious role in the declining Empire.

This is not to say I don't like him - he is almost certainly the best PMs we have ever had and his government one of the most important, and in terms of personality an amazing guy, but True Leftists who want to be honest to the historical record should really be honest with themelves.

New Labour weren't right wing (and I never said they were), but they weren't left wing either, they were Centrists, which is why I didn't count them as left wing.

[Don Vito Corleone]

I just realized the UK hasn't had a left wing government in nearly 40 years.
That is all.

Wow, thanks for this blisteringly hot take, random american.

LOL

No but really, when I first realized this I was shocked.

Weak hot take. If you wanted to go further you should have claimed Wilson's and Callaghan's governments were not left either, and a true hot take master would suggest the UK, in fact, has never had a left wing government.

Not even Attlee's government was left wing! He was very, very dedicated to the monarchy!

If I was trolling from the left (which I often do, if people are being particularly ahistorical in their "left wing Old Labour/Right wing NuLabour" screeds) it is very easy to suggest Attlee would today be on the centre-right of the party. He and his allies came to power in the party by defeating Lansbury and his pacifist idealogy, formed a national government with hated Imperialist/arch conservative former Chancellor Churchill, instituted a draft and various war measures that suppressed various freedoms, led a government characterized by austerity and rationing, rejected Bevan's ideas of a broad left coalition, suppressed strikes, developed the atomic bomb, joined the Korean war and the start of the cold war machinations and still had a very suspicious role in the declining Empire.

This is not to say I don't like him - he is almost certainly the best PMs we have ever had and his government one of the most important, and in terms of personality an amazing guy, but True Leftists who want to be honest to the historical record should really be honest with themelves.

New Labour weren't right wing (and I never said they were), but they weren't left wing either, they were Centrists, which is why I didn't count them as left wing.

Blair/Brown/Mandelson were right-wing in the context of Labour itself. Labour's leadership often comes from the right of the party, and even most Left Labour leaders (or right/centre leaders that gained power through an alliance with the Left) leaders have had rightist elements to their cabinets and administrations. Regardless of your personal feelings towards Blair and Corbyn, the latter is far more of an abhorration in the party's history.

The point is, that if you dismiss NuLab for being "centrists", there is no reason to call every Labour government (insert any social democratic party here) a bunch of centrists, especially given that they were responding to unique contexts (for example, the postwar command economy was a lot different to Britain in the 60's or late 90's).

I never said New Labour were somehow worse then Old Labour because they were centrist, or that their achievements were hollow because of it (in fact, I probably line up with New Labour more then Old Labour myself), all I said was that I was shocked to realize the UK hasn't had a left wing government (as in, Centre-Left, Left or Far Left) in a generation, when plenty of Brits are left wingers.