This Once Great Movement Of Ours

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It’s amazing how many politician seem willing to sacrifice their careers over the exact wording of an amendment that will be defeated and even if passed would have no impact on either our government or importantly either of the governments currently at war 1000s of miles away.

Indeed, it is amazing to see Starmer endanger party unity over the exact wording of an amendment rather than allow a free vote.

It's Schrödinger's amendment. It's at once a 'pointless divisive SNP amendment' that means nothing. But yet also really important in whipping the parliamentary party to abstain.

It was pointless to whip for it, but equally pointless to defy the whip for it.

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McCabe is an archetype you get across the Labour Party at different levels, statist, public sector, cares about community and likes representing people/standing up for them but lacks the kind of personal ambition of, say, a Streeting.

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Surprised there hasn’t been more about Paul Waugh losing the by election selection; I wonder if it was a case of a deliberate snub (well if you’re trying to make us pick him we’ll say say and pick this random guy) or if the winner just generally did well from being the leader of the county council.

I also wonder how much he was just hyped up by the media since he’s one of them, and if he ever had a chance in reality.

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He wasn't beaten by that much in the end tbf.

Its not impossible that many members were aware that Galloway was likely to poke his nose in, and so the question of who might be best placed to counter that was a significant one.

Pretty dumb logic considering Bradford West 2012 vs Batley and Spen 2021 results.

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I’d love it to be Rayner, but I just think between now and the next leadership election the party will have changed too much for her. Would love to be proven wrong though.

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It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

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It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

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It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

Yes I do think it's unpleasant. I think the whole (insincere) "oh actually I pity him really" thing is deeply unpleasant.

It is for immensely good reason the realm of people like Jake Wallis Simons—who, when not making absurd accusations of racism, writes erotica about 17-year-old girls—and Hadley Freeman, who when not losing her mind about transgender people bravely stands up for Women's Rights by circling the wagons around Nick Cohen.* Or Nick Timothy (who then of course ran away like the pathetic, miserable coward he is).

The accusation that Owen Jones fails to understand the views of others, whatever the truth of it, is an incredibly ironic one to follow a sentence in which you seem to think I said that you called him a racist or misogynist.

*Now a martyr, brutally cancelled by that mean Jolyon Maugham man over the Trans. Not, as some suggest, because he is a sexual predator and has faced no actual consequences.

I do pity him, he’s not a stupid man or a bigot but he’s thrown away any relevance or influence he could have had because of his obsession with Starmer - which is not based in reality. Which is not good for the Labour Party, because he’s someone who actually understood class-based politics.

I’ve also next to no clue who the other people you’re talking about are, and I doubt it has much to do with Owen Jones from what I can glean.

[Coldstream]

It’s sad to see what Owen Jones has been reduced to, his ups and downs with Corbynism seemed to send him over the edge. It’s the hope that kills you perhaps.

Personally I’ve always suspected he’s not all there, his views on Starmer/Gaza are increasingly detached from reality. I actually do hope some day he can come back to Labour once he’s sorted out whatever he’s going through. He’s far from the worst of Corbynism.

An excellent example of the increasingly unpleasant and, to the outside observer, bizarre attitude towards Owen Jones. The 'good cop' flip-side to just screaming that he's a racist misogynist. There's something Seriously Wrong with Owen Jones: how could anyone defend themselves against false accusations?

1. I’ve never called him a racist or a misogynist, personally I don’t think he’s either, I just think he’s blinkered. And seems to struggle with understanding the views of others, which means he paints himself in to a corner on issues he doesn’t need to.

2. It’s sad if you live in a world where you think the pity I feel for what he’s become is unpleasant.

Yes I do think it's unpleasant. I think the whole (insincere) "oh actually I pity him really" thing is deeply unpleasant.

It is for immensely good reason the realm of people like Jake Wallis Simons—who, when not making absurd accusations of racism, writes erotica about 17-year-old girls—and Hadley Freeman, who when not losing her mind about transgender people bravely stands up for Women's Rights by circling the wagons around Nick Cohen.* Or Nick Timothy (who then of course ran away like the pathetic, miserable coward he is).

The accusation that Owen Jones fails to understand the views of others, whatever the truth of it, is an incredibly ironic one to follow a sentence in which you seem to think I said that you called him a racist or misogynist.

*Now a martyr, brutally cancelled by that mean Jolyon Maugham man over the Trans. Not, as some suggest, because he is a sexual predator and has faced no actual consequences.

I do pity him, he’s not a stupid man or a bigot but he’s thrown away any relevance or influence he could have had because of his obsession with Starmer - which is not based in reality. Which is not good for the Labour Party, because he’s someone who actually understood class-based politics.

I’ve also next to no clue who the other people you’re talking about are, and I doubt it has much to do with Owen Jones from what I can glean.

Oh it has everything to do with Owen Jones. Jake Wallis Simons says he's a racist. Hadley Freeman says he's a racist and a misogynist. Nick Timothy says he's mentally disturbed for... uhh... reasons. And then often from the same people, and/or their associates, we get the I Pity Owen Jones act. The very least you could do is save it for elsewhere: I doubt many people on this forum are going to buy it.

And also, please put some effort into disguising that you're copying from Luke Akehurst's tweets. Owen Jones is 'obsessed' (no not really) with Keir Starmer—Keir Starmer is obsessed with (complaining to Twitter about, ordering candidate training over) the fact some left-wing jokester made a fake AI recording of his voice along with a dozen purporting to be Captain Tom speaking from heaven.

I’d gently suggest you’re more than a little conspiratorial if people as unimportant as Hadley Freeman and Luke Akehurst occupy enough of your thoughts that you believe a random person expressing sympathy for Owen Jones is an associate of them. I’ll never chide someone for being too online (if for no other reason than it would be hypocritical to do so on a politics forum!)…but even I don’t really follow what you’re talking about.

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Interestingly, I don’t follow Luke Akehurst (really isn’t the fact I vote in the NEC elections bad enough?) but I actually do follow Owen Jones on twitter.

Perhaps I ought to though, if as you seem to believe he’s the only person besides me who’s ever thought there was something strange about OJ’s fixation on Starmer. It has been so lonely with such a unique view.

Would love to know what “briefcase vibes” means in English too fwiw. But I’m sure that everyone else is as tired as I am of this ah, debate. Perhaps you can DM it to me.

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I wrote my dissertation on class and talk about it a lot. I seriously doubt Akehurst said what you’re claiming he did, but if he did that’s just another example of how common the view that OJ isn’t a stupid guy is.

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Dude you didn’t know I existed til yesterday 😂 I wrote my dissertation on class and talk about it a lot. I seriously doubt Akehurst said what you’re claiming he did, but if he did that’s just another example of how common the view that OJ isn’t a stupid guy is.

No you don't. If you're going to lie at least make it convincing. 2,000 posts and you never talk about it. And on the occasions you do, it's "everyone who goes to a private school is upper-class" and "the reactionary working class used to vote and join Labour". By your own admission the only reason you don't think the 'affluent posh bits' of Kensington vote Labour (as you expected them to) is because you've actually canvassed there.

And 'dude' I have known you existed for two years now. Again this has nothing to do with opinion of Owen Jones; it is about the fact it is patently obvious where and from who you borrowed your words from.

This may shock you, but I’ve on occasion spoken to people outside of this forum. My comments on this forum do not consist of an exhaustive list of my correspondence or indeed views.

Nice to know I’m impactful enough for you to have thought about me for two years though, if I ever need a biographer I’ll know who to call!

Known about you for two years, thought about you for two years—still doing that 'stuff which isn't there' thing huh.

Of course I talk about the forum: where else? From your (lack of) statements about class on the forum it is easily observed that you have as little interest in 'class' as understanding of it. I have no idea how someone who wrote a dissertation on class can display such a total lack of interest in it, let alone an understanding of it that, again, leads to you expecting the 'affluent posh bits' of Kensington to vote Labour.

And, you know, given how narrow the results were... did you, then, expect the north of the constituency to vote Conservative? I could maybe understand you expecting them to vote Labour were Kensington an overwhelmingly Labour constituency, but no the Conservatives have polled between 38% and 52% there over the past fifteen years.

Dude you remember a comment I made about something as irrelevant as Kensington I have no recollection of, you cannot be trying to pretend I’m not living rent free.

Again, I’ve no clue what you’re talking about (or why you care) - but I imagine I was referring to when I canvassed there when it had a Labour MP (2018 council elections iirc) and I’d expected it to be similar to Bristol west - where I’d attended university - only to find that it wasn’t. I seriously doubt I was making a thorough or nuanced argument at the time.

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Would love to know what “briefcase vibes” means in English too fwiw. But I’m sure that everyone else is as tired as I am of this ah, debate. Perhaps you can DM it to me.

Well this I know at least, it is a play on the phrase "Briefcase Labour" - a derisive term for a certain type of careerist who has literally done nothing but politics in general, and plotting in particular.

Fascinating. I’ll have to see if Luke Akehurst tweets about it so I know how to use it in a sentence.

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Also I'm not quite sure what defence "actually I thought the 'affluent posh bits' of Kensington would vote Labour" is supposed to be against "you thought the 'affluent posh bits' of Kensington would vote Labour". The reason 'why I care' is because it is an exceptionally good example of you completely failing to understand class, what it is, what it means, and how it works, despite writing a dissertation on it and claiming to actually be very interested in it.

I also question why you're going on about how wow two people think Owen Jones isn't stupid. I'm not talking about you having the same opinion as someone else, I'm talking about you blatantly copying from Luke Akehurst's tweets—and politely requesting that you refrain from doing so as obviously in the future because that I get him on my timeline is bad (and reason to quit Twitter) enough.

Let's go back, check your posts, and reiterate some things.

I do pity him, he’s not a stupid man or a bigot but he’s thrown away any relevance or influence he could have had because of his obsession with Starmer - which is not based in reality. Which is not good for the Labour Party, because he’s someone who actually understood class-based politics.

I’ve also next to no clue who the other people you’re talking about are, and I doubt it has much to do with Owen Jones from what I can glean.

You do not 'pity him'. You are doing an deeply unpleasant act of affected sympathy because, supposedly, he is 'Not All There' and 'Going Through' 'whatever'. Unsurprisingly, I have a strong dislike for (a) insinuating a man is mentally ill because (for reasons understandable to me despite my disagreements with that man) he does not support Keir Starmer and (b) doing a faux sympathy act over it.

Also all the things I mentioned were directly to do with Owen Jones (as I explained to you—though for some reason you decided, with nothing at all to it, that I was actually saying that I think you're an 'associate' of Hadley Freeman and completely ignoring the explanation provided).

Interestingly, I don’t follow Luke Akehurst (really isn’t the fact I vote in the NEC elections bad enough?) but I actually do follow Owen Jones on twitter.

Perhaps I ought to though, if as you seem to believe he’s the only person besides me who’s ever thought there was something strange about OJ’s fixation on Starmer. It has been so lonely with such a unique view.

Would love to know what “briefcase vibes” means in English too fwiw. But I’m sure that everyone else is as tired as I am of this ah, debate. Perhaps you can DM it to me.

It is obvious that you saw and were 'inspired by' his tweet, though for some reason you've chosen this as the hill to make your defence and distract from the fact that this originated with you making unpleasant insinuations about a man's state of mind because he thinks Keith man bad or whatever.

So at this point I don't know if you're failing to read my posts correctly or just lying about what I've said. "if as you seem to believe he’s the only person besides me who’s ever thought there was something strange about OJ’s fixation on Starmer"—where is this from? Again, as I said, I'm not talking about you having the same opinion as someone else.

As I recall I said/thought something like rich white people in Bristol West vote Labour, given that we won Kensington in 2017 before I went there (knowing next to nothing about it as a 19 year old undergrad) I assumed it would be the same demographic-  and I then I went there and realised I was wrong - it’s really not that deep.

You do a lot of things buddy; “politely request” is not one of them.

I don’t think he’s mentally ill because he doesn’t like Keir Starmer, I think he hyper-fixates on random issues to his detriment - in a way that he didn’t do prior to 2020. Which to me suggests something has gone wrong in his thinking. I used to quite like him, and think it’s sad that we don’t have his input anymore. I’m genuinely sorry that you live in a world where you can’t believe it’s possible for me to disagree with him and pity him - but there’s not really anything I could do to convince you if I cared enough to. Which I don’t.

Again, I didn’t read whatever this tweet you’re talking about is, I really don’t think it’s a surprise that he and I may have expressed broadly similar sentiments about an issue - obviously you’re fixated on the idea I have read this tweet, and again, there’s nothing I could do to convince you otherwise.

As to not reading your posts, I mean…mate I try, but you write a lot and not a lot of it makes much sense. And what does comes off as conspiratorial ramblings/accusations to me. I’ll also be generous and say you’ve misunderstood my motives/intentions rather than assuming you’re continually/deliberately misrepresenting what I’m doing, but there’s a limit to how much I or anyone can engage with you when you’re this aggressive. If I’ve got you wrong then I’m sorry about that, but you’ve definitely got me wrong so there’s not really any point continuing.

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Guys I know internecine fighting is a Labour rite of passage but this has to stop.

I am trying to draw the fire in to my inbox to spare everyone else.

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If what you’re sayings true, there’s a real English irony to the fact that I probably like Owen Jones more than you do.

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I’m waiting for Akehurst to tweet about it before I can work out how to articulate my views.

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Actually this whole discussion is quite triggering because it reminds me of when I had to work with John Denham. By far the worst person Labour ever put in the cabinet.

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Actually this whole discussion is quite triggering because it reminds me of when I had to work with John Denham. By far the worst person Labour ever put in the cabinet.

Working with people with principles is difficult for you?

Yes, that’s why I work for the Labour Party.

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Natalie Bennett was also far better than Carla Denyer. She wasn’t as good as Caroline Lucas sure, but once Lucas seemed to lose her interest in the National level I don’t think Bennett disgraced the party.