20th Century History Makers Survivor- organization & results- GANDHI Winner !

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This Survivor is about leaders who were the most influential on the 20th century political history.

It will include
300 leaders in 6 groups (phase 1), i.e. 50 leaders in each group, with 30 to eliminate,
then 120 in 4 groups (phase 2), i.e. 30 leaders in each group, with 20 to eliminate,
then 40 in 2 groups (phase 3), i.e. 20 leaders in each group, with 10 to eliminate,
then 20 for the final list, with 19 to eliminate and 1 winner.

The usual rule is to vote for the leader you want to eliminate in each group.
Each round will be open for at least 24 hours, sometimes a bit more, depending on my agenda.
First round will last a bit longer, since I want everyone to have time to read the lists.

There will be some special rules in almost every 3 rounds: immunity, split votes, double votes, votes to bring back a leader, etc.
I'll warn you about that in this thread and in each specific thread.

I'll vote like anybody, but I won't be authorized to give immunities when they are decided by the first voter.

In case of a tie, the first criteria will be the total of votes received in previous rounds; if there’s still a tie, I’ll decide alone based on the most influential leader (whatever his deeds or country or ideology).

You can EDIT your vote but only for 10 minutes.

I wish everybody will vote in a balanced way, trying to gauge the real influence (good or bad) of leaders on the 20th century political.
The German chancellors, Polish leaders, Soviet and "sister" party leaders, French 20th Century, Portuguese leaders, Obama cabinet Survivors weren't or aren't too much disturbed by partisan hacking.
I urge everybody to try to vote with a historical viewpoint and not to decide through a PRESENT perspective and only with this right-left divide.
When one doesn't know much on a leader, one should read a bit about him/her and not vote only on his/her ideological leaning).

Indeed, it's better to have a more interesting and complex game, with historical debates all along (they're welcome, of course !), as we've got in the survivors I've already referred to.

This thread will give you rules and will sum up the results of each round.

It can be used to comment on the Survivor and its global results, to make predictions, to ask for some explanations, to protest, etc.

I've already explained how the list of leaders has been created and why it's a "classical" one, I've let some time for remarks and I've done some little changes. So, I won't change it any more.

Enjoy this new survivor !
(And thanks to Hughento who is the "father" of this current "survivormania" in the Forum.)

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Don't forget that in stage/phase 1, there are 6 groups:
A, B, C, D, E, F.
So you have to cast 6 votes (if you want...!).

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ROUND 1

A longer round than usual, because it was the first. Not so bad turnouts.  Hughento was the first to vote: fine to see this.
Already some close contests, between Mao and Tojo, Goering and Kim Il-sung. One surprise with Pétain...

Group A: Stalin 12, Himmler 3, Ulbricht 1


Group B: Hitler 12, Pol Pot 3, Franco 1


Group C: Mao 8, Tojo 5, J.F.Dulles 1, Khomeini 1, Menem 1


Group D: Pétain 7, Pinochet 4, Lenin 2, Lévesque 1, Sihanouk 1


Group E: Goering 6, Kim Il-sung 4, Mussolini 3, Suharto 2, Henry Ford 1


Group F: Idi Amin Dada 10, Hess 2, Hindenburg 1, Ian Smith 1, Verwoerd 1, Zia ul-Haq 1

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ROUND 2

A very contested round in group F, with a short win for Ceausescu.
Khomeini and Suharto had no vote this time, a bit surprisingly maybe.
My Antonescu vote was a total failure
Some easy "victories" for Pol Pot, Himmler and Tojo.
Some "wild" votes by Lewis, Gustaf, Xahar and Kalwejt...

Mussolini and Lenin seem to be strong contenders, now. But expect Khomeini and Suharto to come back, and Franco, Verwoerd, Hess and others to fight hard !

Group A: Himmler 11, Shah Pahlavi 1, Ali Jinnah 1, Kim Philby 1, Friedman 1


Group B: Pol Pot 12, Franco 2, Eden 1


Group C: Tojo 10, JF Dulles 1, Selassie 1, Stroessner 1, Antonescu 1


Group D: Pinochet 8, Lenin 5, Sihanouk 1, Nixon 1


Group E: Kim Il-Sung 8, Mussolini 5, Henry Ford 2


Group F: Ceausescu 5, Hess 2, Hindenburg 2, Verwoerd 2, Nikolai II 1, John Paul II 1, Zia ul-Haq 1

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I try to find "nice" (I mean, nicely frightening...) or ridiculous photos of our "history makers".

What a bunch...

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ROUND 3

As always a very contested round in group F, with Verwoerd out after having first applied my tie-breaking rule: is eliminated the one who has received the biggest total of votes in earlier rounds.
Khomeini went back but was just beaten by Mugabe.
Lenin was really disappointing and was beaten by Samaranch, with his surprising breakthrough !
Some easy "victories" for Hoxha, Beria and Mussolini.

Already a declinig turnout, even among our most regular voters....
Too many survivors around ?

Come on guys, vote and make the others vote !

Group A: Hoxha 6, Mengistu 2, Ali Jinnah 1, Shah Pahlavi 1


Group B: Beria 9, Franco 1, Jiang Qing 1


Group C: Mugabe 5, Khomeini 4, JF Dulles 1


Group D: Samaranch 4 , Lenin 2, Qaddafi 1, Sihanouk 1, Molotov 1, Kissinger 1

the one in the middle, with the best salute...


Group E: Mussolini 9, Henry Ford 2



Group F: Verwoerd 2, Zia ul-Haq 2, McNamara 2, Hindenburg 1, Hess 1, John Paul II 1, Ian Smith 1


one in black and white, one in color...

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This is currently round 4. Come & vote to eliminate one leader in each group, as usual.

In next round, you'll have a special rule...

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Group F is lots of fun.

Yep !

With no very big bad guy, like Stalin, Hitler or Pol Pot, many "middle" bads are fighting, plus some weird picks and that's it... groups D and E may become funnier also.

BTW, I've added a photo of Verwoerd.
And changed Hitler's photo, as photobucket has censored the previous one...

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ROUND 4

It's now in group A that we've got the best fight, but E is also fine and F remains a bit messy.
Franco and Khomeini are our great winners. Lenin also.

I'm glad that Antonescu begins to be more considered, a bit sad that Mao's horrible widow, Jiang Qing hasn't more support But Xahar had a fine idea with Yuan Shikai in the same group. And there's also Bokassa in here, so, not easy...
I'm happy Milosevic is eliminated without delay.

I must disagree about Friedman being ousted so early. Deng doesn't deserve to go either, whereas Siad Barre, Ulbricht and Sékou Touré are still here.
Anyways, that's the game !

Group A: Milton Friedman 5, Siad Barre 4, Deng Xiaoping 3, Ulbricht 2, Sékou Touré 1


Group B: Franco 10, Bokassa 2, Jiang Qing 1, Yuan Shikai 1


Group C: Khomeini 9, Antonescu 4, Enver Pasha 1


Group D: Lenin 7, Nixon 2, Hayek 2, Molotov 1, Sihanouk 1, Kissinger 1


Group E: Milosevic 5, Wilhelm II 3, Saddam Hussein 2, Suharto 1, Trujillo 1, Ho Chi Minh 1, Fujimori 1


Group F: Zia ul-Haq 5, John Paul II 3, McNamara 2, Khamenei 1, Hess 1, Nikolai II 1

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Beware, in the current round 5, you must split your vote in each group:
0.5 for one leader
0.5 for another one.

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ROUND 5

Our first special rule has brought some surprises I think: a clear victory for Antonescu, a victory for Marcos and a clear victory for Ian Smith; Siad Barre was voted only once; McNamara and Mengistu didn't make good scores again.

This rule has made more new names to appear... Fine for next rounds.

It was really competitive in groups D (Molotov and Kissinger were just behind Qaddafi) and B (with Bokassa and Jiang Qing quite strong against Marcos).

Today, you've got a special double series of photos.
First, our winners with "weapons":

Group A: Ulbricht 4, Shah Pahlavi 2, Deng Xiaoping 2, Mengistu 1.5, Salazar 1.5, Ali Jinnah 1, Siad Barre 0.5, Billy Graham 0.5


Group B: Marcos 5, Bokassa 3.5, Jiang Qing 3, Yuan Shikai 0.5, Kerensky 0.5, Nimeiry 0.5


Group C: Antonescu 5, McCarthy 3.5, Andreotti 2.5, Stroessner 1, Honecker 0.5, JF Dulles 0.5


Group D: Qaddafi 4, Molotov 3.5, Kissinger 3, Hayek 1.5, Nixon 0.5, Sihanouk 0.5


Group E: Saddam Hussein 4.5, Wilhelm II 3, Mobutu 1.5, Trujillo 1.5, Henry Ford 1, Fujimori 0.5, Suharto 0.5, Brezhnev 0.5


Group F: Ian Smith 4.5, Hindenburg 2.5, Hess 2, McNamara 1, John Paul II 1, Hiro Hito 1, Nikolai II 0.5

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And now, another series of photos: "Our winners with their friends"

Ian Smith with friend greeting him at home (sweet home):


Qaddafi with friend, under his tent:


Antonescu with friend, showing how you must always bend in front of your friend, always at a lower level:


Ulbricht with warders friends whom it's better to choose powerful and numerous:


Saddam Hussein with old friend:


Marcos with rural friend:

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I hope you've enjoyed this series of photos...

Here's round 6, with usual rule.

Next round will be a "special rule" one, with an optional rule, not a compulsory one.
Surprise.

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ROUND 6

It begins to be really competitive in every group.

Sure, Syngman Rhee, the Kaiser and the Czar are well above the others in their respective groups, but the ballots casted are widely spread: up to 7 names cited in group D !

For the second time my rule for breaking ties applies and Bokassa is eliminated and Jiang Qing, because of higher total of votes in previous rounds.
Really a bad rule !

Some surprises: Joe McCarthy receives no vote and Molotov only one.

Group A: Shah Pahlavi 5, Mengistu 3, Salazar 2, Deng Xiaoping 2, Ali Jinnah 1, Siad Barre 1


Group B: Bokassa 5 (5.5 in previous rounds), Jiang Qing 5 (5 in previous rounds), Batista 3, Yuan Shikai 1


Group C: Enver Pasha 4, Charles Taylor 3, Chamberlain 3, Andreotti 3, Stroessner 1


Group D: Syngman Rhee 6, Arafat 2, Hayek 2, Molotov 1, Gomulka 1, Sihanouk 1, Kissinger 1


Group E: Wilhelm II 7, Trujillo 3, Ho Chi Minh 2, Mobutu 1, Suharto 1


Group F: Nikolai II 5, Hindenburg 2, McNamara 2, John Paul II 2, Hiro Hito 2, Hess 1

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Beware !

In this seventh round, you are allowed to cast 2 votes in one group (for only on leader of for 2 different leaders, as you wish).

But if you use this option, you can't vote in another group (that you may choose).

If you cast 2 votes in one group and vote in every other group, I'll choose myself which of your votes I'll erase.

Hope it's clear...

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ROUND 7

The special optional rule has produced nice fights in every group, with difficult wins for Hess (), Jiang Qing (), Taylor () and Salazar ( even i I didn't vote for him).
And of course, Henry Kissinger is our great surprise...

Andreotti, Batista, Suharto and Hayek appear now as strong contenders.
Mengistu and Barre will probably fight fiercely !

A special mention for Xahar, who regularly vote for less prominent names, with (ahem) little success (), but with mostly awful past that may be more noticed !

Oh, I've erased the vote of Kalwejt for... John Paul II (), because I view him as more influential than Andreotti, Batista, Barre and even Hayek. You'll soon see that I'm not a partisan lier, because, in 2 rounds, this may come as a disadvantage for John Paul II.

Some... different photos of Kissinger.
And you can see the effect of evilness on Jiang Qing, the young one (actress) and the old one (evil widow of a master evil).

Group A: Salazar 3, Mengistu 2, Siad Barre 2, Deng Xiaoping 1, Ali Jinnah 1


Group B: Jiang Qing 6, Batista 4, Yuan Shikai 1, Nimeiry 1
Before:

After:


Group C: Charles Taylor 6, Andreotti 5, Stroessner 1


Group D: Kissinger 6, Hayek 4, Molotov 3, Sihanouk 1, Savimbi 1

Ah, Kissinger and women...


Group E: Mobutu 6, Suharto 5, Trujillo 2, Henry Ford 2


Group F: Hess 4, Hindenburg 3, Hiro Hito 3, John Paul II 2, Trotsky 1, Khamenei 1

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Again, I hope you've enjoyed the photos of our losers...

The current round, nr 8, is "as usual".

But, beware, in round 9, the leader non eliminated who will have gathered the biggest total of votes from round 1 to round 8 will be IMMUNE....

So, maybe you have to skip your most hated one, not to give him too much votes...
Or maybe you should vote for him in order to kill him as soon as now...
I don't know !

To help you a bit, here are the votes casted for each non-eliminated leader up to round 7:

Group A:
Deng 8 / Mengistu: 7.5 / Barre 7.5 / Ali Jinnah 5 / Philby 1 / Sékou Touré 1 / Billy Graham 0.5

Group B:
Batista 7 / Yuan Shikai 3,5 / Nimeiry 1,5 / Eden 1 / Kerensky 0.5

Group C:
Andreotti 10.5 / Stroessner 4 / JF Dulles 3.5 / McCarthy 3.5 / Chamberlain 3 / Selassie 1 / Menem 1 / Honecker 0.5

Group D:
Hayek 9.5 / Molotov 9.5 / Sihanouk 6.5 / Nixon 3.5 / Arafat 2 / Gomulka 1 / Savimbi 1 / Lévesque 1

Group E:
Suharto 9.5 / Henry Ford 8 / Trujillo 7.5 / Ho Chi Minh 3 / Fujimori 1.5 / Brezhnev 0.5

Group F:
Hindenburg 11.5 / JohnPaul II 10 / McNamara 7 / Hiro Hito 6 / Khamenei 2 / Trotsky 1

Have fun in A, D, E and F !

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A special mention for Xahar, who regularly vote for less prominent names, with (ahem) little success (), but with mostly awful past that may be more noticed !

I try to keep things interesting. I'm quite upset that Norodom Sihanouk has passed unnoticed so far, with far nicer people like Kissinger going before him.

     I think I'll start going after Sihanouk after Molotov is gone, actually.

Your Sihanouk and Yuan Shikai are rather tempting now !

BTW, Kissinger is surprisingly (or not so...) out very early, but, at least, you've "gained" 2 funny photos !

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ROUND 8

This damned immunity won't please everyone....

Hindenburg is now immune, after having been narrowly beaten by Hiro Hito... historically weird !
Chamberlain is immune after having tied with Andreotti (who "won" due to his far higher veteranship in getting votes...).
Some are narrowly immune, 8.5 against 8: Barre / Deng and Ali Jinnah,
Trujillo / Henry Ford.

Suharto was our great winner: 13 votes out of 14 (guess who was contrarian ).

Group A: Mengistu 9, Ali Jinnah 3, Siad Barre 1, Bill Gates 1


Group B: Batista 7, Assad 3, Yuan Shikai 1, Nimeiry 1, Zhukov 1, Morgenthau 1


Group C: Andreotti 4 (10.5 in previous rounds), Chamberlain 4 (3 in previous rounds), Honecker 3, Stroessner 1, Tourabi 1, Selassie 1


Group D: Molotov 5, Savimbi 4, Ibn Saud 2, Sihanouk 2, Hayek 1


Group E: Suharto 13, Trujillo 1


Group F: Hiro Hito 6, Hindenburg 5, Trotsky 1, McNamara 1

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ROUND 9

Ne Win, Sihanouk and Brezhnev (without my vote, what is more ! ) are quite easily ousted.
But in groups A, C and F, there were fierce battles.

For the first time, I was obliged to use my dictatorial tie-breaking rule: JF Dulles and Joe McCarthy were tied 3-3 with Tourabi, but they received the same total of votes during previous rounds (3.5)... so my first criteria for breaking ties was useless.

So, I've decided to keep JF Dulles, as, in my view, he was a more influential guy on the 20th century history (remember the initial rule: I don't want to know who is bad, who is good in this tie-breaking...).

Trotsky, Farah Aidid, Noriega, Savimbi, Dulles and al-Tourabi seem now as strong contenders, but, wait, no more immunities !
So, Hindenburg, Chamberlain, Siad Barre, Yuan Shikai, Trujillo and Hayek are back !

No doubt there will be some horrible revenges !

Group A: Ali Jinnah 4 (8 in previous rounds), Noriega 4 (0 in previous rounds), Qutb 2, Deng Xiaoping 1, Sékou Touré 1, Horthy 1


Group B: Ne Win 9, Eden 1, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto 1


Group C: McCarthy 3 (3.5 in previous rounds + organizer's decision), JF Dulles 3 (3.5 in previous rounds), Tourabi 3 (1 in previous rounds), Stroessner 2, Honecker 2, Che Guevara 1


Group D: Sihanouk 7, Savimbi 4, Arafat 1, Thatcher 1


Group E: Brezhnev 7, Aidid 5, Fujimori 1, Ho Chi Minh 1

Jill St John on the left... Sorry for this photo which is not serious, whereas Brezhnev was really a bad guy !

Group F: Ali Khamenei 5, Trotsky 4, McNamara 1, Reagan 1, John Paul II 1, Churchill 1, Mountbatten 1, Hiro-Hito 1 (invalid)

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ROUND 10

A more peaceful round, with clear winners: Hindenburg at last, Aidid, Yuan Shikai.
Hindenburg with one of our highest totals of votes: kill Paul, the end.

Savimbi and Barre have won with a tiny margin and Chamberlain is out in an exploded landscape in group C, but no big fight here.

Xahar keeps on voting for bad Asian leaders... I'm surprised Ershad hasn't been on the list, yet...

Some islamist thinkers (and "actors") begin to gather votes: Maududi, Qutb, after Tourabi (who has improved with time...).

Allen receives his first vote, while bro' John Foster is still here, on a big mountain of votes !

Group A: Siad Barre 5 Horthy 4, Noriega 1, Qutb 1, Park Chung-hee 1


Group B: Yuan Shikai 6, Assad 2, Eden 2, Maududi 1, Kerensky 1

Yuan with some "friends"...

Group C: Chamberlain 4, Tourabi 3, JF Dulles 2, Honecker 2, Stroessner 1

Sandwich of Chamberlain with "friends"...

Group D: Savimbi 7, Ibn Saoud 5, Hayek 1


Group E: Aidid 8, Henry Ford 3, Allen Dulles 1, Ho Chi Minh 1


Group F: Hindenburg 11, McNamara 1, Bhumibol 1

Paul with a little and respectful guy, easy to manage, don't worry, and even useful for some time, and...oh wait...

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The current 11th round is "as usual".

But the next one, round 12, will be a "special" one, with an optional but potentially "nuclear" rule...

Don't worry, no immunity !
(BTW, apart from one round, all the immunities to come will be decided by vote)

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At one point, when the lists are shorter, there ought to be a round that ends when all but one person have received a vote, with that person eliminated.

Yeah, why not.
I haven't included this idea in my secret rules (I've already decided all the rules for all the rounds ! just to say that I'm not trying to save this one or that one).
But I may include it once when I've put "usual rule"... even though I've got 2 other rules that are pretty similar to your own.
Thanks for the idea.

EDIT: your idea is included, but in stage 2, when there is 4 groups.

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ROUND 11

Americans under pressure: Henry Ford (against Castro... I know the old capitalist was a bad guy and has gathered votes for many, many rounds, but Castro... ), JF Dulles (at last, you may say !) are out, and Nixon was tied but saved by my tie-breaking rule...

New ideas, changes in tactics for many posters (including me, resulting in neither Selassie, nor Honecker eliminated I'm a poor tactician !): a very "fluid" situation.
And so, I think, quite interesting.

Not many big bad guys left, but many middle bad ones (even if not middle in their badness !): names may pop up very quickly and fade away as quickly.

Group A: Horthy 8, Noriega 1, Qutb 1, Park Chung-hee 1, Zinoviev 1

Once upon a time, Adolf and Miklos were riding in their new car...

Group B: Nimeiry 4, Assad 3, Blair 2, Maududi 1, Kerensky 1, Eden 1

Sudan is a sunny country. Under Nimeiry, well, in a way...

Group C: JF Dulles 6, Tourabi 3, Selassie 3

"Where should I strike now, John ?"

Group D: Saoud 5 (7 in previous rounds), Nixon 5 (3.5 in previous rounds), Hayek 1, Thatcher 1

Great friends of the 20th century: the other Yalta

Group E: Henry Ford 7, Castro 3, Trujillo 1, Zahir Shah 1

Ford T, with one likely human being on the right

Group F: Trotsky 6, McNamara 2, Bhumibol 2, Mountbatten 1, Kenyatta 1

The real communist, the true communist, the kind communist, the... err... a usual Soviet leader of the 1920s.

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So, this round 12 has a special optional rule:
you CAN cast 6 votes in one group, with a mawimum of 4 votes for the same leader; if you do so, you can't vote in any other group.
But you can also vote as usual, with one vote in each group.

So, either six votes in one or one vote in each of six? Nothing in between?

Yep !
And your 6 votes INSIDE THE SAME GROUP, 1-1-1-1-1-1 or 2-1-1-1 or 2-2-1-1 or 2-2-2 or 3-3 or 3-2-1 or 3-1-1-1 or 4-1-1 or 4-2

And the round will be open for 48 hours, due to a mission I have to do in Paris.
So, plenty of time to think about it...
Of course, 4 votes (especially if you are at least 2 voters) is a great thing.
But you have to cast 2 other votes in the group. And you can't vote in another group....
Of course, you can wait a bit, to see what the other posters do.
But, if you wait too long, you may not be able to vote....