COVID-19 Megathread 5: The Trumps catch COVID-19

[JA]

Even though my mom and sister live with a severely immunocompromised person with chronic disabling health conditions, work at nursing homes, and were approved by their employers for temporary leave, they were both still denied unemployment benefits. Incredible.

[JA]

Howard Stern suggests Trump supporters take disinfectants and drop dead

Howard Stern, the famed radio personality, suggested Monday that President Trump's supporters should “take disinfectant” and “drop dead.”

“I would love it if Donald would get on TV and take an injection of Clorox and let’s see if his theory works,” Stern said on Monday. “Hold a big rally, say f—k this coronavirus, with all of his followers, and let them hug each other and kiss each other and have a big rally.”

“A big cocktail of disinfectant,“ Robin Quivers, his longtime sidekick suggested, according to the New York Daily News.

“Yeah,” Stern concurred. “And all take disinfectant and all drop dead.”

[JA]

Open States, Lots of Guns. America Is Paying a Heavy Price for Freedom.

The coronavirus scenario I can’t stop thinking about is the one where we simply get used to all the dying.

I first saw it on Twitter. “Someone poke holes in this scenario,” a tweet from Eric Nelson, the editorial director of Broadside Books, read. “We keep losing 1,000 to 2,000 a day to coronavirus. People get used to it. We get less vigilant as it very slowly spreads. By December we’re close to normal, but still losing 1,500 a day, and as we tick past 300,000 dead, most people aren’t concerned.”

[...]

There’s also a national precedent for Mr. Nelson’s hypothetical: America’s response to gun violence and school shootings.

As a country, we seem resigned to preventable firearm deaths. Each year, 36,000 Americans are killed by guns — roughly 100 per day, most from suicide, according to data from the Giffords Law Center. Similarly, the Everytown for Gun Safety Support Fund calculatesthat there have been 583 “incidents of gunfire” on school grounds since 2013. In the first eight months of 2019, there were at least 38 mass shootings, The Times reported. Last August, 53 Americans died in mass shootings — at work, at bars, while shopping with their children.

[...]

For Dr. Megan Ranney, an emergency physician and Brown University professor who works on gun violence prevention, the dynamics of the lockdown protesters are familiar.

“This group has moved the reopening debate from a conversation about health and science to a conversation about liberty,” Dr. Ranney told me. “They’ve redefined the debate so it’s no longer about weighing risks and benefits and instead it’s this politicized narrative. It’s like taking a nuanced conversation about gun injury and turning it into an argument about gun rights. It shuts the conversation down.”

[...]

As in the gun control debate, public opinion, public health and the public good seem poised to lose out to a select set of personal freedoms. But it’s a child’s two-dimensional view of freedom — one where any suggestion of collective duty and responsibility for others become the chains of tyranny.

This idea of freedom is also an excuse to serve one’s self before others and a shield to hide from responsibility. In the gun rights fight, that freedom manifests in firearms falling into unstable hands. During a pandemic, that freedom manifests in rejections of masks, despite evidence to suggest they protect both the wearers and the people around them. It manifests in a rejection of public health by those who don’t believe their actions affect others.

Now that I think about it, it does seem that the most fanatical pro-2nd Amendment folks are often also the most rabidly opposed to the lockdowns. The same people who offer up nothing but "thoughts and prayers" to the victims of our near daily gun violence, including regular school mass shootings, are offering nothing more than "thoughts and prayers" to the victims of Covid-19 and their families. In fact, just like with gun violence, they are just going through the motion of the words, but not actually feeling empathy with those suffering. All that matters is that their overprivileged, self-centered lifestyle isn't affected by the problems that primarily plague disadvantaged communities (which is the case with both gun violence and covid-19).

[JA]

New York governor says 5-year old died from rare COVID-related illness

A five-year-old boy has become the first child in New York to die from a rare inflammatory condition believed to be linked to the novel coronavirus.

Governor Andrew Cuomo told reports at a Friday press briefing that the boy died in New York City on Thursday night.

[...]

Cuomo said health authorities are investigating 73 similar cases reported across New York where children have exhibited symptoms to Kawasaki disease or toxic shock-like syndrome.

'While rare, we are seeing some cases where children affected with the COVID virus can become ill with symptoms similar to the Kawasaki disease or toxic shock-like syndrome that literally causes inflammation in their blood vessels,' he said.

[...]

Cases of rare, life-threatening inflammatory illnesses in children associated with exposure to COVID-19 were first reported in Britain, Italy and Spain.

However, doctors in the US are starting to report clusters of kids with the disorder, which can attack multiple organs, impair heart function and weaken heart arteries.

'This would be really painful news and would open up an entirely different chapter,' Cuomo said.

'I can't tell you how many people I spoke to who took peace and solace in the fact that children were not getting infected.'

This emerging syndrome, which may occur days to weeks after a COVID-19 illness, reflects the surprising ways that this entirely new coronavirus infects and sickens its human hosts.

[JA]

So....

Does anyone else think we've massively misplayed this.

No. We haven’t even seen the worst of what this virus will do yet. Being asymptomatic doesn’t shelter you from all of the possible consequences of acquiring this virus, many of which we likely don’t even know about yet. For example, if you are a young male and have acquired the virus, you may want to visit a fertility doctor (after you recover).

https://twitter.com/kurteichenwald/status/1258488918036676609?s=21

[JA]

https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1258790040018313217?s=21

[JA]

California Mayor is apparently trying to push the stay at home order through July (which isn't going to be necessary due to the case trend). Hopefully he realizes what that means and he will come back to reality, but expect riots if he doesn't.

I highly doubt there will be riots for that. I think most people have been expecting long lockdowns for a while now.

Through July? Lol no

Yeah, 4+ months of stay-at-home orders will not be tolerated well by many.

Too bad for them.

[JA]

California Mayor is apparently trying to push the stay at home order through July (which isn't going to be necessary due to the case trend). Hopefully he realizes what that means and he will come back to reality, but expect riots if he doesn't.

I highly doubt there will be riots for that. I think most people have been expecting long lockdowns for a while now.

Through July? Lol no

Yeah, 4+ months of stay-at-home orders will not be tolerated well by many.

Too bad for them.

You must be one of those who prioritizes fighting the virus over gradually reopening the economy, a reopening process that would be attended with precautions. We've already seen the negative, and extensive economic impacts from the few months of shutdowns we've had. I think it would be in LA County's interest to adopt a "safer-at-home", phased reopening approach, similar to that occurring here in Colorado.

We are absolutely nowhere near prepared to reopen; look what is already happening to countries who’ve checked all the right boxes in order to reopen, yet are already seeing signs of a second wave. America half-assed its lockdowns, we have a large segment of our population unwilling to even wear a simple mask in public, have nowhere near enough PPE, and people think we are in any way prepared to begin reopening?

[JA]

California Mayor is apparently trying to push the stay at home order through July (which isn't going to be necessary due to the case trend). Hopefully he realizes what that means and he will come back to reality, but expect riots if he doesn't.

I highly doubt there will be riots for that. I think most people have been expecting long lockdowns for a while now.

Through July? Lol no

Yeah, 4+ months of stay-at-home orders will not be tolerated well by many.

Too bad for them.

You must be one of those who prioritizes fighting the virus over gradually reopening the economy, a reopening process that would be attended with precautions. We've already seen the negative, and extensive economic impacts from the few months of shutdowns we've had. I think it would be in LA County's interest to adopt a "safer-at-home", phased reopening approach, similar to that occurring here in Colorado.

We are absolutely nowhere near prepared to reopen; look what is already happening to countries who’ve checked all the right boxes in order to reopen, yet are already seeing signs of a second wave. America half-assed its lockdowns, we have a large segment of our population unwilling to even wear a simple mask in public, have nowhere near enough PPE, and people think we are in any way prepared to begin reopening?

I'm certainly aware of the issues which we have seen for our reopening process, and it has been said for quite some time that there will be a second wave. However, would you advocate keeping large segments of the economy shuttered down for several months more? Let's say that we were to do that. What would be the economic consequences? The public health consequences? And by "public health consequences", I mean the risks associated with suicide, domestic violence, and other life-threatening diseases such as cancer and heart disease. These are in addition to the risks posed by coronavirus itself.

At some point, people will be forced to consider-as I've said before-their financial well-being, and balance it with concerns for their health. And many small business owners and workers cannot afford to be kept out of business for the duration which you propose. Unless if you welcome 30% unemployment, that is. And I'm certain, knowing your viewpoints, that you wouldn't.

You’re so close to a class conscious position, but you just can’t bring yourself over that line, huh? The response to that unfortunate situation is for the government to finally assume responsibility of securing people’s livelihoods. A few billionaires made obscene amounts of money during this crisis; as have other corporations and individuals well positioned to benefit. It’s time to halt this war of capitalists against workers; trying to coerce working people into sacrificing their wellbeing to maintain profits and this corrupt economic system. Anything short of shifting the burden onto the rich and privileged to secure the livelihoods of working people is unacceptable and will result in only more death and economic hardship.

[JA]

California Mayor is apparently trying to push the stay at home order through July (which isn't going to be necessary due to the case trend). Hopefully he realizes what that means and he will come back to reality, but expect riots if he doesn't.

I highly doubt there will be riots for that. I think most people have been expecting long lockdowns for a while now.

Through July? Lol no

Yeah, 4+ months of stay-at-home orders will not be tolerated well by many.

Too bad for them.

You must be one of those who prioritizes fighting the virus over gradually reopening the economy, a reopening process that would be attended with precautions. We've already seen the negative, and extensive economic impacts from the few months of shutdowns we've had. I think it would be in LA County's interest to adopt a "safer-at-home", phased reopening approach, similar to that occurring here in Colorado.

We are absolutely nowhere near prepared to reopen; look what is already happening to countries who’ve checked all the right boxes in order to reopen, yet are already seeing signs of a second wave. America half-assed its lockdowns, we have a large segment of our population unwilling to even wear a simple mask in public, have nowhere near enough PPE, and people think we are in any way prepared to begin reopening?

I'm certainly aware of the issues which we have seen for our reopening process, and it has been said for quite some time that there will be a second wave. However, would you advocate keeping large segments of the economy shuttered down for several months more? Let's say that we were to do that. What would be the economic consequences? The public health consequences? And by "public health consequences", I mean the risks associated with suicide, domestic violence, and other life-threatening diseases such as cancer and heart disease. These are in addition to the risks posed by coronavirus itself.

At some point, people will be forced to consider-as I've said before-their financial well-being, and balance it with concerns for their health. And many small business owners and workers cannot afford to be kept out of business for the duration which you propose. Unless if you welcome 30% unemployment, that is. And I'm certain, knowing your viewpoints, that you wouldn't.

You’re so close to a class conscious position, but you just can’t bring yourself over that line, huh? The response to that unfortunate situation is for the government to finally assume responsibility of securing people’s livelihoods. A few billionaires made obscene amounts of money during this crisis; as have other corporations and individuals well positioned to benefit. It’s time to halt this war of capitalists against workers; trying to coerce working people into sacrificing their wellbeing to maintain profits and this corrupt economic system. Anything short of shifting the burden onto the rich and privileged to secure the livelihoods of working people is unacceptable and will result in only more death and economic hardship.

We do eventually have to reopen. Now, I will argue we are doing it stupidly, and any reopening should probably include mask laws (I have changed my stance on this due to the inability of the American people to act sanely) and enforcement of social distancing when possible, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t  reopen. We can talk about government social networks as a way to alleviate some of the damage, but we can’t stay closed forever. FWIW, I do think Los Angeles should remain locked down now.

I’m not aware of anyone advocating permanent quarantines, least of all myself. But, at this stage, we simply aren’t able to reopen without hurting ourselves even more. We didn’t need to have such a prolonged lockdown; but Republican malice on this issue ensured that our lockdowns wouldn’t be as effective as we needed, nor do we have testing and tracing capacities near what is needed. I want us to reopen, but I want it done safely. Republican policy squandered the time we had during the lockdowns; sending workers back now is a right wing position that arises from their leadership’s realization that the disproportionate impacts will be on low income people, POC, and women. Since those groups are disposable, then business elites and public officials can easily reopen without putting themselves at much risk of death; the poor and POC will simply serve as fodder to keep the gears of profit moving.

[JA]

Lmao reopening is exactly what this country should be doing. The states that reopened are no worse off than the states stuck in lockdown and the lockdown is ruining the economy everywhere. But muh 80 year olds I guess

Perhaps you should come back when you have at least a clue of what you’re talking about. The facts are that, while the elderly are disproportionately likely to be severely affected, they are far from the only group; we don’t even know the full extent of what this virus can do to people. There are young males developing fertility issues, school age children developing a severe and potentially fatal inflammatory condition weeks after contracting the virus and barely displaying symptoms, and who knows what else may come from this virus.

You guys are p*ssy because for the first time in many Americans lives, they’re being asked to place responsibility before rights. We’re being asked to do a few fairly simple, albeit inconvenient and economic challenging, set of tasks to protect the welfare of others. And the millions of folks like you who can’t be asked to make sacrifices for others without throwing a tantrum are getting very, very tiresome.