Actress accuses HW Bush of sexual assaulting her

[JA]

I would bet money that every modern President save President Obama and President Carter have either assaulted or acted inappropriately with women in a professional setting. Our society encourages that type of crass behavior.

Gawd, I wish some bear would grab you by your little manpu**y and see how much you like it.

[JA]

There's another accuser:

https://deadspin.com/second-woman-george-h-w-bush-groped-me-1819855977

This makes Bush sound like a relic from the 1950's then an actually sexually assaulter.

Sexual assault is sexual assault regardless of where or when it happens. Stop trying to excuse or downplay the severity of sexual assault; the "relic from the 1950s" is a sexual assaulter no better than any person who performs a similar action today. Sexual coercion, exploitation, and violence is pervasive in our society and can be performed by anyone to anyone, with any person from a relative to a friend to your boss to the President being capable of having a history of performing unwanted sexual advances against victims. And under no circumstances, whether "it was the 1950s" or "we were drunk" or "she was dressed like a whore" could ever possibly excuse it. Period.

[JA]

Andrea Mitchel ‏Verified account @mitchellreports  13h13 hours ago
 
Mrs Bush was at his side. He is in a wheelchair with Parkinson's syndrome. Really? Someone should be ashamed and it isn't '41.

Gee, I wonder why so few victims ever come forward... Then when a victim does come forward years later and/or after someone else already has, everyone starts questioning and doubting them, “why didn’t you come forward before?” Probably because people, throughout history into our present day, are so inclined to shame the victim and not believe them while protecting the accused. Nobody wants to accept that sexual assaulters and rapists could be respected public figures, your son, your friend, etc... It shows what an unpredictable world we live in and that being a victim isn’t something that can necessarily be prevented. These are uncomfortable facts, but in cases of sexual assault accusations, where only 2-8% are proven false (at the same level as other accusations of violent crimes), while the law should still protect “innocent until proven guilty” the public should believe the victim until proven innocent.

[JA]

Why don't we just say, "All men are pigs," and get it over with. 

I mean, all men are pigs, but that doesn’t solve anything.

Excuse you, I’m only a pig when I’m at my girl’s trough.

[JA]

The sheer amount of vitriol she's getting on Instagram is troubling.

How dare she speak ill of the old and defenseless David Cop-a-feel

Anyone who victim shames should honestly be sent to a gulag.

[JA]

The sheer amount of vitriol she's getting on Instagram is troubling.

How dare she speak ill of the old and defenseless David Cop-a-feel

Anyone who victim shames should honestly be sent to a gulag.

Well I'm sure she was the architect of victim shaming during her hubs cooter a day days.

I've been staring at this for two minutes and still can't figure out what it means. Am I having a stroke?

[JA]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If I could, I'd honestly send each of those people (and all other similar commenters) to the gulags. They're uncivilized, disgusting defenders of sexual assault and victim shamers. They're the very embodiment of what's wrong with our world.

[JA]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If I could, I'd honestly send each of those people (and all other similar commenters) to the gulags. They're uncivilized, disgusting defenders of sexual assault and victim shamers. They're the very embodiment of what's wrong with our world.

Judging complete strangers is okay!

So, if one of your immediate family members said that, you would think they deserve a Soviet-style gulag? “Bleeding-heart liberal” has a whole new meaning there.

[JA]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If I could, I'd honestly send each of those people (and all other similar commenters) to the gulags. They're uncivilized, disgusting defenders of sexual assault and victim shamers. They're the very embodiment of what's wrong with our world.

Because few offensive comments on the internet certainly deserve that kind of punishment. Viva la free speech.

Offensive and hateful speech like that doesn’t deserve to be free.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Contradictory terms, but ok.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If you think this is why Trump won, you’re an idiot. You simply want to coddle victim shamers because you’re an awful person. This has absolutely nothing to do with why the Democrats couldn’t manage to defeat a semi-literate reality TV star with penchant for sexual assault and habitual lying.

[JA]

Those are just a couple of mildest comments on her page:

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If I could, I'd honestly send each of those people (and all other similar commenters) to the gulags. They're uncivilized, disgusting defenders of sexual assault and victim shamers. They're the very embodiment of what's wrong with our world.

Judging complete strangers is okay!

So, if one of your immediate family members said that, you would think they deserve a Soviet-style gulag? “Bleeding-heart liberal” has a whole new meaning there.

If a relative said that to me they would be disowned. But you would be "meh" about it?

Please never accuse anyone of lacking in empathy ever again.

"Empathy" means "Being willing to overlook s***ty behavior because I'm also a sexist asshat"

Kingpolean is the type of scumbag who, in a different cultural context, would make excuses to justify the public stoning of a rape victim or marrying off of a woman to her rapist.

[JA]

Because few offensive comments on the internet certainly deserve that kind of punishment. Viva la free speech.

Offensive and hateful speech like that doesn’t deserve to be free.

All right you don't believe in free speech. Whole principle of free speech is about allowing opinions you personally detest.

Hate speech should be outlawed.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Contradictory terms, but ok.
[/quote]

Meaning socially liberal.[/quote]

And? Liberals are trash; basic ass centrists.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

If you think this is why Trump won, you’re an idiot. You simply want to coddle victim shamers because you’re an awful person. This has absolutely nothing to do with why the Democrats couldn’t manage to defeat a semi-literate reality TV star with penchant for sexual assault and habitual lying.
[/quote]

This has everything to do with that. Trump won because democratic elites completely lost the touch with normal people who aren't politically correct.[/quote]

If honestly believe "political correctness" is the reason Democrats lost, I feel sorry for you.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

So... because X amount of people think something is alright, that makes it alright? If at least 50% of the country thought forced segregation based on race was ok too, would you be here defending that as well?

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No thanks. My bubble is all warm and cozy; I quite like it in here.

[JA]

I honestly can't believe this needs to be stated, but really shouldn't be surprised.

Victims are never at fault. Sexual assault and sexual violence of any kind never were, never are, and never could be excused, rationalized, defended, or downplayed in their severity. Anyone who has committed any sexual transgression against another person deserves to be called out for it, no matter their age or position in society. Victims deserve to be believed by people unless/until the accused is proven innocent (which they rarely are innocent, considering a mere 2-8% of such accusations are false). Sexual assaulters and rapists very rarely ever face any serious consequences for their actions and throughout history, even today in our country, victims are made to feel ashamed and at fault when they did nothing wrong whatsoever. Blame is 100% on the perpertrator; they consciously chose to touch, force themselves upon, or make unwanted sexual comments towards another person without their consent.

If you in any way, shape, or form try to disregard a victim's testimony, downplay the severity of what had happened to them, blame them for it, or question their actions whatsoever, you are a horrible person. That's what's meant by the pervasiveness of rape culture in America. Sexual violence is an incredibly serious and far too common thing in our society; millions of people are permanently scarred by something they did nothing to cause. It can lead to depression, self-harm, PTSD, and countless other problems in a victim's life and the last thing they need is to be shamed by others. And if you think "oh it was just innocent touching," then you're trash.

[JA]

I honestly can't believe this needs to be stated, but really shouldn't be surprised.

Victims are never at fault. Sexual assault and sexual violence of any kind never were, never are, and never could be excused, rationalized, defended, or downplayed in their severity. Anyone who has committed any sexual transgression against another person deserves to be called out for it, no matter their age or position in society. Victims deserve to be believed by people unless/until the accused is proven innocent (which they rarely are innocent, considering a mere 2-8% of such accusations are false). Sexual assaulters and rapists very rarely ever face any serious consequences for their actions and throughout history, even today in our country, victims are made to feel ashamed and at fault when they did nothing wrong whatsoever. Blame is 100% on the perpertrator; they consciously chose to touch, force themselves upon, or make unwanted sexual comments towards another person without their consent.

If you in any way, shape, or form try to disregard a victim's testimony, downplay the severity of what had happened to them, blame them for it, or question their actions whatsoever, you are a horrible person. That's what's meant by the pervasiveness of rape culture in America. Sexual violence is an incredibly serious and far too common thing in our society; millions of people are permanently scarred by something they did nothing to cause. It can lead to depression, self-harm, PTSD, and countless other problems in a victim's life and the last thing they need is to be shamed by others. And if you think "oh it was just innocent touching," then you're trash.

That's not how our country works , in our country you are innocent until proven guilty.

I wasn't contending that anyone should be treated, legally, as anything but innocent until proven guilty. There is due process in this country and it's for everyone's benefit. My remarks were regarding the perceptions others have of that person, such as how all these people were so quick to rush to Bush Sr's defense rather than giving the victim the benefit of the doubt.

[JA]

I honestly can't believe this needs to be stated, but really shouldn't be surprised.

Victims are never at fault. Sexual assault and sexual violence of any kind never were, never are, and never could be excused, rationalized, defended, or downplayed in their severity. Anyone who has committed any sexual transgression against another person deserves to be called out for it, no matter their age or position in society. Victims deserve to be believed by people unless/until the accused is proven innocent (which they rarely are innocent, considering a mere 2-8% of such accusations are false). Sexual assaulters and rapists very rarely ever face any serious consequences for their actions and throughout history, even today in our country, victims are made to feel ashamed and at fault when they did nothing wrong whatsoever. Blame is 100% on the perpertrator; they consciously chose to touch, force themselves upon, or make unwanted sexual comments towards another person without their consent.

If you in any way, shape, or form try to disregard a victim's testimony, downplay the severity of what had happened to them, blame them for it, or question their actions whatsoever, you are a horrible person. That's what's meant by the pervasiveness of rape culture in America. Sexual violence is an incredibly serious and far too common thing in our society; millions of people are permanently scarred by something they did nothing to cause. It can lead to depression, self-harm, PTSD, and countless other problems in a victim's life and the last thing they need is to be shamed by others. And if you think "oh it was just innocent touching," then you're trash.

Hey, just to be clear, I’ve read some of your posts in which you call out Trump’s sexual assault. Do you care to do the same to the Clintons - Bill for doing it, Hillary for denying and defending it?

I don't particularly care for the whataboutism, but I'll bite. Yes, Bill Clinton has quite the history of serious accusations levied against him and, honestly, I believe his accusers. Being a Democrat (which I'm not, btw so defending or ignoring crimes by Democrats isn't my interest), a President, a relative, or whoever shouldn't influence how you approach accusations of sexual assault or harassment. A pretty good article on the subject of the Clinton double standard can be found here. And while I'm not particularly familiar with the allegations against Hillary's role in these matters, if she had engaged in victim shaming of any kind then I obviously condemn it as well.

[JA]

Victims deserve to be believed by people unless/until the accused is proven innocent (which they rarely are innocent, considering a mere 2-8% of such accusations are false).

I don't really understand how a belief about the facts of a case can be something that's conditional on what one "deserves".  I can't control whether I believe something is true or not.  If someone tells a story that I find credible, then there's a good chance that I'll believe it.  If it doesn't seem credible, then I might not believe it.  Or more likely, if there's some dispute between parties about the facts of a case, then I might be agnostic about it at some level, especially if it's something that doesn't involve me and instead involves people who I've never met and am very unlikely to ever interact with or talk to.

So I don't think you can control whether you believe someone or not, but you can control what you say.  If that's all you mean--that people should speak and act as if an accusation of something like this is credible and taken seriously even if they have serious doubts about a particular case--then I agree with you.

I'd say that's the best approach, honestly. You don't want a witch hunt against a potentially innocent person, but you do want people to express sympathy towards the victim.