Pete Buttigieg 2020 campaign megathread

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I mean...Mayor Pete isn't wrong about that.  Sanders would lose in a landslide to Trump and probably set the party back a decade or two in the process.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

A coalition of black, brown, and (some) white working/middle class people (in Bernie's case) sounds much more convincing to me than a bunch of white meritocrats (in Pete's case).  In fact, I struggle to understand what could be so broadly appealing about a gentrifier like Pete.  Certainly, he can't expect the demographics he's left behind as mayor, namely poor people and minorities, to turn out for him in droves in the general.

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you said this because you heard "meritocrat" used as an insult on some podcast and have no idea what it means as opposed to actually being batsh!t insane enough to think meritocracy is an inherently bad thing

Even if you think Sanders would have a hard time he’d do better than Buttigieg. Pete is showing himself to be the candidate for wealthy virtue signaling white liberals who fetishize Bush 43’s presidency because of Trump’s tone.

You know, I've noticed some folks on Atlas have increasingly tried to delegitimize some liberals they by attacking them for being white.  Not gonna lie, that's pretty racist.  Plus, something tells me you guys would react a bit differently if Tim Ryan or Joe Biden said a candidate expressing support for slavery reparations had shown themselves to be the candidate of "virtue signaling to black liberals."

I mean...Mayor Pete isn't wrong about that.  Sanders would lose in a landslide to Trump and probably set the party back a decade or two in the process.

What states do you see Trump winning against Sanders that he couldn't win against Clinton?

New Hampshire, Minnesota, Nevada, Maine, Colorado, and Virginia could all easily flip to Trump and Trump would also win every state he won in 2016 if Sanders got the Democratic nomination.   

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I mean...Mayor Pete isn't wrong about that.  Sanders would lose in a landslide to Trump and probably set the party back a decade or two in the process.

No candidate has that much potential to harm a party that much in the long term, especially in this era of polarization. Regardless of one’s views of Sanders political beliefs (and it seems you seem to have soured on him bigly in recent months).

That's fair.  My feelings on Sanders are complicated.  I feel he'd be a disastrous President and an even worse candidate, but I'm really glad he's running because he's keeping everyone else accountable one issues like income inequality and banking regulation while also moving the Overton Window to the left.  Plus, he's a really important voice in the Senate.  I think I probably come across as more hardline anti-Sanders on Atlas than I actually am.  For example, I still don't have the slightest regret about voting for him and donating to his campaign in 2016.  I strongly oppose most of his foreign policy positions though.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

A coalition of black, brown, and (some) white working/middle class people (in Bernie's case) sounds much more convincing to me than a bunch of white meritocrats (in Pete's case).  In fact, I struggle to understand what could be so broadly appealing about a gentrifier like Pete.  Certainly, he can't expect the demographics he's left behind as mayor, namely poor people and minorities, to turn out for him in droves in the general.

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you said this because you heard "meritocrat" used as an insult on some podcast and have no idea what it means as opposed to actually being batsh!t insane enough to think meritocracy is an inherently bad thing

Even if you think Sanders would have a hard time he’d do better than Buttigieg. Pete is showing himself to be the candidate for wealthy virtue signaling white liberals who fetishize Bush 43’s presidency because of Trump’s tone.

You know, I've noticed some folks on Atlas have increasingly tried to delegitimize some liberals they by attacking them for being white.  Not gonna lie, that's pretty racist.  Plus, something tells me you guys would react a bit differently if Tim Ryan or Joe Biden said a candidate expressing support for slavery reparations had shown themselves to be the candidate of "virtue signaling to black liberals."

I mean...Mayor Pete isn't wrong about that.  Sanders would lose in a landslide to Trump and probably set the party back a decade or two in the process.

What states do you see Trump winning against Sanders that he couldn't win against Clinton?

New Hampshire, Minnesota, Nevada, Maine, Colorado, and Virginia could all easily flip to Trump and Trump would also win every state he won in 2016 if Sanders got the Democratic nomination.    

LOLOLOL. Virginia is gone for republicans. I understand you probably don't want Sanders to be the nominee, but the concern trolling here is plain ridiculous. Furthermore, calling out people who have no policy views and care nothing about moving the democratic party forward and would take a neoconservative hack like Jeff Flake over Trump is not racist. It's obvious RFKfan was referring to people like Peter Daou or Steny Hoyer not a generic white person.

I don’t know who Peter Daou is, but Beto Bro’s post was clearly a general attack on white people who are liberal by implying that being white makes them inherently less committed to pursuing a progressive agenda.  His race-baiting might’ve not been entirely conscious, it was still race-baiting all the same.  If this wasn’t what Beto Bro meant then he should have clarified what he meant and indicated that he’d try to word his posts more clearly going forward.  That he has done neither of these things is telling.

LOLOLOL. Virginia is gone for republicans. I understand you probably don't want Sanders to be the nominee, but the concern trolling here is plain ridiculous. Furthermore, calling out people who have no policy views and care nothing about moving the democratic party forward and would take a neoconservative hack like Jeff Flake over Trump is not racist. It's obvious RFKfan was referring to people like Peter Daou or Steny Hoyer not a generic white person.

This is such a meme. If Trump, a terrible fit for the state, could come within 5% of winning it when Clinton's VP pick was a former Virginian governor and she poured money into the state, then it's definitely not safe for the Dems yet. Democrats have just had quite a few scandals in the state, and while they've been doing well in statewide elections recently it's possible that this could change in the fall. Of the states Clinton won, I would rank Virginia as the third-most likely to flip to Trump, after New Hampshire and Minnesota.

lmao if you think Tim Kaine was the reason why Trump lost VA by 5 points instead of, you know, Donald Trump being himself. VA is one of the only states that trended left in 2016 and the two election cycles with Trump on the ballot have been absolute bloodbaths for the GOP

Also sitting Senator Claire McCaskill would love to tell you all about the transferrability of state-level scandals to highly nationalized federal elections.

New Hampshire, Minnesota, Nevada, Maine, Colorado, and Virginia could all easily flip to Trump and Trump would also win every state he won in 2016 if Sanders got the Democratic nomination.    

None of these outside maybe Nevada or Maine are remotely close to flipping in a Bernie vs. Trump election. Bernie pretty resoundingly beat Clinton in both NH and CO in 2018. He got a stupid number of write-in votes in MN in the 2016 general and that's the only reason why Trump came anywhere close to winning. VA wouldn't vote for Trump if he was running against Ralph Northam in blackface. Even in Maine there social safety net programs are incredibly popular and Bernie (who runs on these mostly in a race-neutral way) could lean on support for those pretty easily.

Even if you think Sanders would have a hard time he’d do better than Buttigieg. Pete is showing himself to be the candidate for wealthy virtue signaling white liberals who fetishize Bush 43’s presidency because of Trump’s tone.

So weird how some people are already convinced of which demographic groups won't ever vote for certain candidates. Just like in 2016 most (but not all) candidates will coalesce around the eventual winner. The idea that POC won't turn out for Buttigieg when most of them don't even know who he is at this point is kinda silly.

Sanders is a uniquely bad fit for Virginia and I could see him depressing turnout in parts of NOVA and also losing votes in NoVA to some corporacratic third party hack like Howard Schultz.  Suburbanites in general are gonna hate him (sometimes more than they hate Trump, sadly) and while you may hate to admit it, the fact is that you guys don’t have a GE path to victory against Trump without improving on Hillary’s suburban numbers (which Sanders can’t do, he’ll be lucky if he even matches them in the event that Schultz runs).  I do think Hillary would only have won Virgina by about 2-3% without Kaine.

Sanders has a better chance of winning Colorado, but I can easily see a scenario where he gets narrow enough margins in places like JeffCo to barely lose the state.  You guys assume the choice is “Trump” or “Sanders,” but it’s not.  Folks can [and will if Sanders is nominated] vote third party or skip the race.  Also, Sanders would only get like 55-60% of the Jewish vote and he’s going to do badly enough with older Jewish voters that I can’t really see a scenario where it’s possible for him to win Florida.  This will decline will also hurt him in places like Pennsylvania.

Btw, one thing no one has mentioned yet is which states Sanders brings to the table that most Democrats wouldn’t win anyway.  I mean, he’ll underperform somewhere like Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Virginia, North Carolina, Arizona, etc.  What do we win with him that folks who appeal to a broader coalition wouldn’t win anyway?

I don’t know what McCaskill has to do with anything since I never said the Northam stuff or the VA Dems decision to protect the state’s rapist LG would hurt Sanders.  Also, Hawley didn’t have any scandals, so even if it weren’t a non-sequitor, that would still be a poor example for your point.  

A coalition of black, brown, and (some) white working/middle class people (in Bernie's case) sounds much more convincing to me than a bunch of white meritocrats (in Pete's case).  In fact, I struggle to understand what could be so broadly appealing about a gentrifier like Pete.  Certainly, he can't expect the demographics he's left behind as mayor, namely poor people and minorities, to turn out for him in droves in the general.

I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you said this because you heard "meritocrat" used as an insult on some podcast and have no idea what it means as opposed to actually being batsh!t insane enough to think meritocracy is an inherently bad thing

Okay, first of all, whether or not meritocracy is an ideal we should aspire to is a separate discussion.  The issue at hand is that we do not live in a meritocratic society by any reasonable standard.  People don't begin life on a level playing field.  Research has shown that a number of factors, most prominently parents' wealth and race (in fact, 60% of American wealth is inherited) are the most consequential factors in influencing a person's life chances.  As a result, the upper echelons of society, whether in academia or the beltway or on boards of large corporations, are dominated by people who lived lives of relative privilege.  Conversely, the sorts of people in prison, disproportionately people of color, were born poor and grew up that way.  There are exceptions, of course, but the notion of the American Dream is largely confined to the margins.

The other problem is that Mayor Pete's academic credentials aren't all that relevant or important to the job.  Why should anyone care that he speaks 8 languages or whatever, or that he graduated from Harvard?  The only people it dazzles (i.e. meritocrats) are the sorts who think that smarts and wit inherently makes people better leaders.  I don't think so.  I'm looking for someone who supports good policies, and Mayor Pete quite frankly has a terrible record as mayor in multiple respects.

See, you say that yet you use “meritocrat” as a pejorative.  Also, I’ve only seen anti-Buttigieg Atlas posters mention his academic credentials and I’m pretty sure no one cares how many languages he speaks, but whatever.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I don’t know who Peter Daou is, but Beto Bro’s post was clearly a general attack on white people who are liberal by implying that being white makes them inherently less committed to pursuing a progressive agenda.  His race-baiting might’ve not been entirely conscious, it was still race-baiting all the same.  If this wasn’t what Beto Bro meant then he should have clarified what he meant and indicated that he’d try to word his posts more clearly going forward.  That he has done neither of these things is telling.

How is "virtue signaling white liberals who fetishize Bush 43's presidency because of Trump's tone" a general attack? That seems very specific to me.

I was referring to a subset of white liberals who absolutely do act like the rise of white nationalism in this country lays solely at Trump's feet and that getting him out of office will get rid of it. It won't. White supremacy isn't a fringe political phenomenon it is baked into the DNA of one of the two major political parties in this country. Thinking otherwise is harmful and what led to Trump in the first place. White people ignoring the blatant racism of the GOP machine and thinking if they keep it under the surface it doesn't exist.

Fair enough, thank you for clarifying.  That said, I don’t think that’s the crowd Buttigieg appeals to though.  The folks you’re talking about are, in my admittedly anecdotal experience, generally nostalgia-motivated Biden supporters who think everything will be great if we just elect Obama’s VP b/c, you know, the Republican Party was so responsible and totally didn’t embrace right-wing racism when Obama was in office

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I don’t know who Peter Daou is, but Beto Bro’s post was clearly a general attack on white people who are liberal by implying that being white makes them inherently less committed to pursuing a progressive agenda.  His race-baiting might’ve not been entirely conscious, it was still race-baiting all the same.  If this wasn’t what Beto Bro meant then he should have clarified what he meant and indicated that he’d try to word his posts more clearly going forward.  That he has done neither of these things is telling.

How is "virtue signaling white liberals who fetishize Bush 43's presidency because of Trump's tone" a general attack? That seems very specific to me.

I was referring to a subset of white liberals who absolutely do act like the rise of white nationalism in this country lays solely at Trump's feet and that getting him out of office will get rid of it. It won't. White supremacy isn't a fringe political phenomenon it is baked into the DNA of one of the two major political parties in this country. Thinking otherwise is harmful and what led to Trump in the first place. White people ignoring the blatant racism of the GOP machine and thinking if they keep it under the surface it doesn't exist.

Fair enough, thank you for clarifying.  That said, I don’t think that’s the crowd Buttigieg appeals to though.  The folks you’re talking about are, in my admittedly anecdotal experience, generally nostalgia-motivated Biden supporters who think everything will be great if we just elect Obama’s VP b/c, you know, the Republican Party was so responsible and totally didn’t embrace right-wing racism when Obama was in office

Yeah. Buttigieg is appealing to wealthy folks who are completely removed from regular life.

Biden's announcement video reeked of what I was referring to. When he said Trump's Charlottesville video shocked America's conscious, I was like dude half of the country agrees with him. LOL. This type of naivete will not move the ball forward in race relations.

I think Buttigieg just appeals to suburbanites and intellectuals in general.  Granted, some are removed from regular life, but every candidate has some awful supporters.  Kinda curious why you like O’Rourke so much more than Buttigieg though tbh. 

Yeah, I hated Biden’s announcement video too.  I suppose the man knows what his base wants to hear

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I could easily see Buttigieg being the runner up to Sanders or Biden in the primary and then winning the nomination and defeating Pence in 2024 after Sanders or Biden lost the general to Trump.  This could be the most likely way he becomes president. 

By 2024, progressives will dominate the Democratic Party, this is Pete's only shot.

Err...Buttigieg is a progressive.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I could easily see Buttigieg being the runner up to Sanders or Biden in the primary and then winning the nomination and defeating Pence in 2024 after Sanders or Biden lost the general to Trump.  This could be the most likely way he becomes president.  

By 2024, progressives will dominate the Democratic Party, this is Pete's only shot.

Err...Buttigieg is a progressive.

Nice try. Progressives don't say that it's too early to talk about policy.

I forgot, when was it that you were given the role of deciding who's a progressive and who's not? Or is that some role Bernie supporters always have, deciding that all these female, black, gay candidates are not progressive?

There’s a difference between a progressive and a mainstream liberal. From what we’ve seen of his history as mayor, his campaign rollout, some of his stances, and who he took money from until he was called out he is not necessarily progressive. Folks like Harris and O’Rourke are definitely to his left. And one’s demographic make up does not make them a progressive.

Being a progressive and being a mainstream (U.S.) liberal are the same thing in every meaningful sense not pertaining to buzzword-based branding.  Also, from what we've seen so far, I'm not really sure how you can argue O'Rourke is to Buttigieg's left.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://politicalwire.com/2019/06/03/buttigieg-wouldnt-have-pressured-franken-to-resign/

Good d*** it!

Back to undecided

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

I like Pete, but a solid portion of his support seems to be propped up by NowThis news clips on Twitter and YouTube.

Says the O’Rourke supporter

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/marcushjohnson/status/1137232572373786624


Bad tactics, man. Buttigieg is so color blind that he doesn't see the inherent racism of this stunt.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/marcushjohnson/status/1137232572373786624


Bad tactics, man. Buttigieg is so color blind that he doesn't see the inherent racism of this stunt.

How do you think this will gain him Southern black votes?

I think calling it inherently racist is dumb, tbh.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/marcushjohnson/status/1137232572373786624


Bad tactics, man. Buttigieg is so color blind that he doesn't see the inherent racism of this stunt.

A white guy drinking beer with black guys is racist?

Okay 1960s George Wallace.

You can't be serious right now

Explain how it's racist?

Perpetuates the stereotype of black people drinking on 40s in the hood.

Pretty sure that's not a stereotype that actually exists

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Let's move this thread from a toxic wastedump to more substance, shall we:

https://twitter.com/TimesofIsrael/status/1138523309782364160

“The current state of affairs cannot endure. The pressure of history and the mathematics of demography mean that well before 2054, Israelis and Palestinians will have come to see either peace or catastrophe,” said Buttigieg.

“A two-state solution that achieves legitimate Palestinian aspirations and meets Israel’s security needs remains the only viable way forward and it will be our policy to support such a solution actively. And if Prime Minister Netanyahu makes good on his promise to annex West Bank settlements, he should know that a President Buttigieg would take steps to ensure that American taxpayers won’t help foot the bill,” he said.

I'll just say this- the quote shows he's done much more research on the issue than Sanders did.

Good man

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

MEMO
To: Pete Buttigieg
From: Celes

Body: Never say "I'm not asking for your vote." Say "we're not talking about voting right now."

END

To which the folks complaining about this on Twitter would've responded: "White man tells black protestors they're not allowed to talk about voting unless he gives them permission!  #SlaveMaster #Racism #DefeatPete"

If any other candidate told a black protestor he "isn't asking for (their) vote", the Jedi would tar them as a racist, or at best, racially insensitive and their campaign would be done. The media ended Howard Dean in 04 because he got over exuberant at a rally...

No, Dean's campaign imploded because he came a distant third in a state (Iowa) where he needed to wipe the floor with the other candidates in order to have a serious chance of being the nominee.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Yang passed Mayor Pete in a HarrisX/Hill poll yesterday, 5-4

Pete's time has come and gone, I think. Theoretically he could still have another surge between now and Iowa, but it's looking more like a footrace between Warren, Biden, and Sanders at this point. I don't necessarily think Pete should drop out because if he can place top 5 in IA/NH/NV he may have a legitimate case to stay in a little longer but he should be angling to be Warren's VP at this point.

I'm still planning to vote for him at this point.  The stronger a showing he has, the stronger a case he can make for being picked as VP and Biden will probably win the Ohio primary either way.  Buttigieg would make a phenomenal President even if we have to wait a cycle or two.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Here's something worthy of discussing!

https://twitter.com/Bencjacobs/status/1176258790225797120

But his soul goes marching on...

I mean, he’s not wrong...

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

This should be sticked

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

So now can we sticky this and unsticky the Kamala Harris thread?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/AmziQureshi/status/1174701733559357441

Warren was pretty disingenuous about how she’d pay for her healthcare plan and I say that as someone who generally likes her.  And Buttigieg isn’t wrong, eliminating all private healthcare is a terrible idea.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Yeah, still not feeling this hype. He came off as a condescending white guy at the debate and was praised for it by the media, but Castro was lambasted as being "too nasty" when he did it to Biden. He hasn't proposed any serious or game-changing policy proposals and he's super uninspiring. The hype is that he's a cute gay vet with a hubby.

His lack of black support is why his campaign is doomed.

Attacking Buttigieg won't make Kamala Harris any less of a joke candidate.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

There is alot of room for a more moderate candidate in the dem primary. However after the last week, I really hope its Klobuchar instead of Buttigieg.

I like Klobuchar, but I think she'd have even worse POC problems than Pete.

Ehhh, she'd have some problems with them, but at a minimum, I think she'd poll better with African-American voters if only because Buttigieg is gay and she's heterosexual.  I'm not saying Buttigieg being gay is the only reason he polls poorly with African-Americans, but anyone who says it isn't at least one of several significant reasons is just plain wrong.  

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/1186253985948356609

This pretty much ties "The Russians want Gabbard" for most damning thing I've seen thrown at any D candidate this cycle.

Misleading headline.  Some high-up people at Facebook wanted to join the Buttigieg campaign and asked Zuck to write a letter of recommendation for them.  Standard Operating Procedure in the 'real adults who work' world.

At least from the Bloomberg article, it appears more like this was:

The CEO of Facebook and his wife sent a deluge of emails with lists of potential employees to Buttigieg's campaign manager, two of whom were later hired, rather than,

a couple Facebook employees sent the Buttigieg campaign resumes, including getting letters of recommendation from the CEO and his wife.

I mean, it's gross, but I'm sure Warren, Sanders, Biden, and any other candidate you can name hired some of their staff the same way through equivalent special interest folks backing them.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Seems worth noting:

https://www.thestate.com/news/politics-government/article236516903.html

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

As a Centrist Path Opens, Pete Buttigieg Moves Toward It

In February, Pete Buttigieg, praised the Green New Deal as “the right beginning.” In June he called for decriminalizing illegal border crossings. A month later he dismissed criticisms of raising middle class taxes to pay for expanded health care, calling it “a distinction without a difference.” By October, however, Mr. Buttigieg, had moved toward the center on all three issues. He has a climate-focused TV ad in which he says, “I believe that we need to have a plan that works for all of us.” The border crossings issue, he told CNN last week, is “the kind of stuff that gets us trapped.” And he’s a month into an attack on Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts for not explaining how she’d pay for an overhaul of health care. It’s a risky maneuver in a moment of rising political populism and leaves Mr. Buttigieg vulnerable to charges of shape-shifting for political advantage. There is a bifurcation within Mr. Buttigieg’s campaign. Much of his staff, which was built over the summer before his direct contrasts with Ms. Warren began, is made up of young and energetic progressive organizers, while his supporters and senior aides tend to come from the party’s centrist establishment.

Multiple financial bundlers told the campaign that the Supreme Court and Electoral College proposals were not popular, according to people familiar with the discussions. Mr. Buttigieg has since quietly dropped them from his stump speech. He made no mention of either in Philadelphia or during his first post-debate campaign stop last Thursday in Iowa.

During the three-month period ending Sept. 30, Federal Election Commission records show Mr. Buttigieg’s campaign spent three times as much money on polling as any other candidate except Tom Steyer, an indication that the mayor is looking for signs of what resonates with voters and what doesn’t. While he has condemned Ms. Warren’s commitment to a single-payer health care system that would eliminate private health insurance, the roster of donors who have given at least $1,000 to Mr. Buttigieg’s campaign includes senior executives at CVS Health, Astex Pharmaceuticals, Anthem Inc. and Ironwood Pharmaceuticals.

Source - NYT

Link?