Am I the only one who feels this way about the Old Testament? (user search)
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  Am I the only one who feels this way about the Old Testament? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Am I the only one who feels this way about the Old Testament?  (Read 2408 times)
Greatest I am
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Posts: 819
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« on: February 16, 2019, 08:52:59 PM »

The only way I can hack it is to say the Old Testament is an allegory and example of life (and death) under the Law.  The New Testament is about life and death under grace.

One system illustrates that you must always strive for perfection because it is the price and requirement to be with God... but you will never attain it and this cycle will continue forever.

The other system turns the system on its head and puts the sin on God himself as the only perfect being and the only being able to handle it, but because of free will, you must choose to accept his grace and sacrifice on your behalf.  Without that choice, you are still condemned.

I believe God gives you every chance to let him unburden you of your sin.  I'd like to believe you will literally have to face God and reject him even after your earthly death and walk into hell yourself.  Did Doubting Thomas not have his skepticism answered and his proof provided before he believed?

Accept the sacrifice eh.

Is that a moral thing to do?

Do you agree that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral? Do you agree that to abdicate personal responsibility or use a scapegoat is immoral?

If not, please show how it is morally and legally good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty, bearing in mind that all legal systems think that punishing the guilty is what is justice.

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
Jr. Member
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Posts: 819
Canada
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2019, 08:58:53 PM »

There's a religion that makes do with the OT as its entire written scripture, and does so without being markedly more martial compared to other religions. It's called Judaism.

Rabbis have been discussing these aspects of the OT for thousands of years and their perspectives are generally a lot fresher than the stale "muh Old Testament harsh and punishing God and muh New Testament gentle and forgiving God" takes in this thread. Much of God's behavior in the OT represents the earliest strata of the Jewish religion and of the covenant with God that Jews and some Christians believe the Jewish people still to have. God uses His power of life and death over His creatures, a power which was apodictic and unanswerable then and is still apodictic and unanswerable now, much more actively and obviously in the "heroic" (so to speak) period of the Patriarchs and Former Prophets than He does later on; the Jewish people's forebears are living in hard and violent times and the ways in which God manifests His providence towards them comport with that hardness and violence because the covenant is relational and affects God in addition to affecting the Jews.

I'd appreciate elaborations or (if need be) corrections from any Jewish posters who might read this; I'm writing it as a Christian with relatively remote Jewish ancestry and a primarily academic familiarity with Judaism as practiced.

If Jews were literalists, perhaps. They are not.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D

Regards
DL
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Greatest I am
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Posts: 819
Canada
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2019, 09:08:02 PM »

I’ve never read the Old Testament, let alone the whole Bible, in its entirety. Even so, it’s impossible for me to read it and not want to literally slap God in the face for murdering all of those people and what not.

No, you're not the only one. This idea is as old as the New Testament itself, Marcion, e.g., believed around the year 140 BC that the wrathful Hebrew God was a separate and lower entity than the all-forgiving God of the New Testament.

You might want to go check when the N T was written.

You are trying to see a dead Jesus 170 years before he was born.

Regards
DL
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