JK Rowling is a TERF (user search)
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  JK Rowling is a TERF (search mode)
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Author Topic: JK Rowling is a TERF  (Read 3459 times)
HisGrace
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,737
United States


« on: June 10, 2020, 02:37:56 PM »

She was talking about "women" in regards to biological sex, the thing that's actually relevant to whether you menstruate, not outward gender identity. The controversy here is just looking for excuses to be pissed off.

TERFs say nasty things about transpeople and outright deny that it is a real phenomenon, with transwomen just being men who want to "steal the benefits of feminism" or whatever. Not what she was doing at all. 
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HisGrace
Junior Chimp
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Posts: 5,737
United States


« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2020, 06:49:23 PM »

The controversy here is just looking for excuses to be pissed off.

Yes, that's what Rowling was doing.

She doesn't seem pissed off.
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HisGrace
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,737
United States


« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2020, 02:39:14 PM »

What is the point in having gendered restrooms if there is no circumstance under which you could tell someone they're using the wrong one?

Because the vast majority of people aren't douchebags who pretend to be trans in order to either (a) make a transphobic point or (b) stalk people in the bathroom. And if they were stalking people in the bathroom, THAT WOULD STILL BE ILLEGAL regardless of gender. But I agree, we should move toward gender-neutral bathrooms that have more privacy than bathrooms have currently.

Also I'm still waiting for a response: was my definition of intersex wrong? Also, are there other medical conditions we should stop using words to refer to, because they're uncommon?

Good, I'm glad you take the position that we should have gender-neutral bathrooms. Most people I've heard speak on this subject still think that we should have segregated restrooms, even though there is apparently no way to identify a man or a woman who is using the incorrect one. Seems pretty pointless.

However, the "vast majority of people" may not take advantage of this, but apparently nothing is stopping them. Nothing is stopping me-- a 6'3" man-- from "identifying" as a woman and joining the WNBA. Nothing is stopping a man from entering a woman's bathroom-- his behavior might get him kicked out, but apparently the fact that he is in there is not enough to remove him from the premises by your standards. I think there is a way to compromise here that preserves the rights of transgenders while simultaneously rejecting the (obviously wrong) radical idea that anyone can "identify" as whatever they please.

I think the key thing here that a lot of the trans movement seems to have forgotten is that there is a difference between biological sex and gender identity. Sometimes your gender identity is the relevant thing. Other times your biological sex is what's relevant, like in elite sports leagues or what bathroom you use, particularly if it's one where people shower or change clothes. You've got people now earnestly calling biological sex a "social construct". Pretty sure no one "decided" that some people would have penises and others would have vaginas unless you believe in god.
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HisGrace
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,737
United States


« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2020, 03:03:30 PM »

I think the key thing here that a lot of the trans movement seems to have forgotten is that there is a difference between biological sex and gender identity. Sometimes your gender identity is the relevant thing. Other times your biological sex is what's relevant, like in elite sports leagues or what bathroom you use, particularly if it's one where people shower or change clothes. You've got people now earnestly calling biological sex a "social construct". Pretty sure no one "decided" that some people would have penises and others would have vaginas unless you believe in god.

They also appear to have forgotten that the distinction to which you refer was created out of thin air by a quack child abuser. After many years of asking questions on this subject, I still don't understand what people mean by "gender identity" because every gender activist seems to have their own imaginary definition. If it simply relates to gender roles-- the clothes you choose to wear, how long you cut your hair, your interests, your hobbies-- then that's fine. Those are gender roles. But I don't see how that relates to things like pronouns, ID cards, sports, restrooms, or locker rooms, all of which have to do with your actual gender, not how you choose to express yourself.

A lot of people say they felt like they were in the wrong body even before puberty. I think some people are born in the body of one sex but have the mind and hormones of another. That creates an intellectual difficulty for feminists because they would have to concede that gender is not a social construct and that there are generally some non physical differences between men and women. That's why I think "woketers" seemed to have backed off the old argument I talked about and are now attacking the idea of biological sex itself which makes them come off as blatantly ridiculous to most people, so it's a losing strategy.
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