Neil Gorsuch Confirmation Process Discussion (confirmed 54-45)

[Confused Democrat]

Again: I would have given Garland hearings and an up-or-down-vote (to vote him down).

^^^^Every blue avatars go to defense when this subject comes up.^^^^

NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE DONE. YOU'RE NOT AN EFFING SENATOR!

You're effectively admitting that what the Republicans did to Garland was dead wrong, and yet you somehow expect Democrats to take this Gorsuch nomination sitting down.

[Confused Democrat]

so it is pretty clear Democrats should take a stand here against Trump, the GOP, and their theft of this Senate seat.

Lol. So the rules say whichever party controls the presidency at the exact moment a vacancy arises owns that seat forever? Because i will never understand this "they stole it, so we have to steal it back, but somehow when we do it its not stealing" argument.

i could have lived with republicans rejecting half a dozen judges, until we got someone who finally was good enough or moderate enough or neutral on abortion or 80 years old or whatever, but just being able to reject hearings is mindblowing, imho.

Agreed. And the democrats were right then to complain. Now theyve taken what moral high ground they had, shat all over it, and still keep complaining about how stinky the republicans were a year ago.

Next time don't steal Supreme Court seats and maybe we won't have this problem.

I dont need to poke holes in your argument because repeating this "stolen seat " garbage betrays your lack of understanding and objectivity, but what the hell.

This overall argument is equivalent to a toddler justifying the pulling of his playmate's hair because "she should have shared if she didnt want it pulled." Right and wrong dont just disappear if someone else did something first. That is nor how logic works.

You guys made your bed and now you'll have to sleep in it.  Enjoy   Oh and spare me the hypocritical moralizing, I think I speak for most Democrats when I say you're wasting your breath.  I literally have no interest in seeing that seat filled by anyone regardless of their qualifications or objectivity until we have a Democratic President.

AT SOME POINT SOMEBODY IS GOING TO HAVE TO DEESCALATE.

Easier said than done.

I believe America is going to have to go through some sort of major crisis that leads to a watershed moment where politicians put aside partisan politics and begin to work together/compromise.

[Confused Democrat]

I'm fine with Gorsuch if his confirmation means that, in some small way, the country gets further away from coming apart at the seams.

It won't though.

[Confused Democrat]

Lol.

Joe Biden's Senate Judiciary Committee did exactly this to John Roberts in 1992.

The Senate, imo, isn't obligated to accept anyone the president nominates for a judicial position, but they are obligated to accept someone and not be unreasonable about it. If it is a Republican president, the Senate should accept it's going to be some sort of conservative nominee, and if it is a Democrat, they should accept it is going to be some sort of liberal.

But of course you'll disagree with that in some way, because you're basically a partisan troll-hack destined to haunt Atlas forever.

Let's test this theory.

John Roberts was nominated to the DC Circuit in January 1992. What do you think happened to his nomination, and who do you think filled it?

And when Francis Murnaghan of the 4th circuit died in August 2000, how did his seat remain vacant until 2009? Little trivia. One of the failed nominations to that seat is our soon to be Deputy AG Rod Rosenstein, who has major Democratic support. But they wouldn't let him fill the seat.

One wonders!

Thank you. Always a pleasure reading about the unbelieveable amout of Democrats hypocrisy.

Republicans are just as hypocritical, so I really don't see how that helps your case.

[Confused Democrat]

Not even close as Dems who started it all and are now whining about the other side doing the same. Well, there's an old German saying: What you don't want anyone to do with you, don't do it to someone else.

The only thing I'm wondering is how all these Dem Senators or people like Joe Biden can lie without any shame - while knowing that they created the problem and are the only ones to blame for.

Oh really? Did you know that Stephen Breyer was nominated to the 1st circuit in November 1980, and confirmed in December 1980? Very Nice!

This was after Jimmy Carter was thrashed in the 1980 elections. Ted Kennedy and company did not return the favor.

Look, it's obvious that we're never going to come to an agreement here, but I find it a bit disconcerting that you can't see how your party is just as hypocritical as mine when it comes to this issue.

At least I can admit as much.

You can point to your examples of when Democrats obstructed Republican judicial appointments, and I can point to my examples of when Republicans obstructed Democratic judicial appointments. Where exactly does it get us?

This is just the natural escalation of things.

[Confused Democrat]

Not even close as Dems who started it all and are now whining about the other side doing the same. Well, there's an old German saying: What you don't want anyone to do with you, don't do it to someone else.

The only thing I'm wondering is how all these Dem Senators or people like Joe Biden can lie without any shame - while knowing that they created the problem and are the only ones to blame for.

Oh really? Did you know that Stephen Breyer was nominated to the 1st circuit in November 1980, and confirmed in December 1980? Very Nice!

This was after Jimmy Carter was thrashed in the 1980 elections. Ted Kennedy and company did not return the favor.

Look, it's obvious that we're never going to come to an agreement here, but I find it a bit disconcerting that you can't see how your party is just as hypocritical as mine when it comes to this issue.

At least I can admit as much.

You can point to your examples of when Democrats obstructed Republican judicial appointments, and I can point to my examples of when Republicans obstructed Democratic judicial appointments. Where exactly does it get us?

This is just the natural escalation of things.

I can fully accept your position. It's way more than the vast majority of Democrats aknowledge, what is utterly shameful.

The problem is that like I said before and others pointed out, the Dems started it all, they used it way more than the GOP and now they are talking like it was invented by the GOP and the Dems always are the victims. Do you really expect us to be calm and reasonable when confronted with such an incredible amount of hypocrisy???

And, to make it clear: I absoluetly know that the GOP is very close of being as obstructionist.

Republicans will say Democrats started it, and Democrats will say Republicans started it.

I say it doesn't matter who started it.

[Confused Democrat]

Republicans will say Democrats started it, and Democrats will say Republicans started it.

I say it doesn't matter who started it.

Cause Dems like to lie...

But yeah, today it's totally irrelevant. The only funny thing is that there are millions of butthurt Liberals out there who really think that the Republicans started it with Garland lmao.

Just listened a few minutes to Senator Merkley. At least he's not low energy and I applaude him for standing up to his opinion and take action. But it's again simply troubling for me that this guy is denying reality in so many ways, e.g. the topic we recently discussed.

If Republicans can't break the filibuster, they should find another nominee.

That's my view.

[Confused Democrat]

If Republicans can't break the filibuster, they should find another nominee.

That's my view.

Their official excuse is that if Democrats won't accept Gorsuch, they won't accept anyone. Personally I think it's a load a crap - if Trump withdrew Gorsuch and put up a Republican version of Garland, at least an additional handful of Democrats would peel off and vote for him and thus overcome the filibuster, knowing that it is the best they can get given the situation.

The reality is that Republicans only want a "consensus candidate" when it is a Democrat making the nomination. There is little chance a Republican president would make such a nomination willingly.

I must interject and say that I strongly disagree with this. In my opinion, it wasn't the best thing for the Republicans to deny Obama's nominee, Garland, a hearing last year. However, Gorsuch has an impeccable record and is very qualified. The Democrats have nothing against him, and they are fighting him so vigorously because they are upset about Trump, and upset about Garland. If the Garland affair had not happened, and especially if some other President than Trump were naming Gorsuch, this would not even be an issue. The Democrats are making fools of themselves, and shooting themselves in the foot.

I will reiterate.

If Republicans can't break the filibuster, they should find another nominee.

People are quick to hand-wave away what the Republicans did to Garland and eager to lambast Democrats for mounting a filibuster. It's quite infuriating. If Trump withdrew Gorsuch for a slightly more moderate nominee and the Democrats continued to obstruct, Republicans would have a better justification for nuking the filibuster.

Right now, I don't see nuking the filibuster as justified.

[Confused Democrat]

No's just hit 41.

[Confused Democrat]

No's just hit 41

Is this the vote on the filibuster?

This is the cloture vote.

[Confused Democrat]

There's no use in counting anymore. Republicans can't get 60, so they need to put up or shut up.

[Confused Democrat]

No's just hit 41

Is this the vote on the filibuster?

This is the cloture vote.

Oh right.  I suppose the vote on the 'nuclear option' will take place right after.

Yes

[Confused Democrat]

Wait what?

McConnell no?

[Confused Democrat]

Now Schumer is motioning to postpone the nomination to April 24th.

I'm guessing after this vote fails, McConnell will call for a point of order and start nuking the filibuster.

[Confused Democrat]

Screw you McConnell

[Confused Democrat]

Schumer motions to adjourn until 5 pm.

All we can do is stall.

[Confused Democrat]

There are not enough words to describe how much I hate this situation.

McConnell is acting like his hand is being forced here when it absolutely isn't.

[Confused Democrat]

Here we go

[Confused Democrat]

So is it likely he will be added?
What's the nuclear option?

If Republicans succeed in nuking the filibuster, yes.

[Confused Democrat]

I can forgive Democratic Senators in Republican states voting for cloture and confirming Gorsuch, but I cannot forgive a Senate Democrat who votes to nuke the filibuster on SC nominees.

[Confused Democrat]

Where is the ticker?

[Confused Democrat]

FML

[Confused Democrat]

Gutless cowards, every one.

Agreed. I sent an angry email to Sen Warner today calling him a hypocrite, a coward, a dissapointment, and informing him that he wouldn't get any more of my votes since he's decided to become a hack without principles and treat a good judge like garbage. Sent a similar email to Sen. Kaine, but i never voted for him so it was less preachy and indignant.

Give me a break. Republicans didn't even try to nominate a consensus candidate.

[Confused Democrat]

I can forgive Democratic Senators in Republican states voting for cloture and confirming Gorsuch, but I cannot forgive a Senate Democrat who votes to nuke the filibuster on SC nominees.

No one did that, not even Manchin. Also keep in mind that several Democrats from states Trump won in a landslide aren't even supporting Gorsuch.

I know, I made that comment before they voted.

[Confused Democrat]

Gutless cowards, every one.

Agreed. I sent an angry email to Sen Warner today calling him a hypocrite, a coward, a dissapointment, and informing him that he wouldn't get any more of my votes since he's decided to become a hack without principles and treat a good judge like garbage. Sent a similar email to Sen. Kaine, but i never voted for him so it was less preachy and indignant.

Give me a break. Republicans didn't even try to nominate a consensus candidate.

And Democrats didnt even pretend to give Gorsuch a fair hearing, which they just spent an entire year whining about. Yes i know, "iz a stolez seat. Teh rules say the Democratic Party forever owns that seat."

At least they had the courtesy to give Gorsuch a hearing. I can't say the same for the Republicans who treated Garland like garbage.