Game of Thrones Season 8 Discussion Thread

[GoTfan]

The difference, of course, is that in every one of those previous cases reasons had been laid out why Dany felt justified and we as an audience (usually) agreed she was justified in doing so. In this case, they didn't. They had Daenerys prioritize attacking civilians because ?

Executing the Tarlys in S7 after they had laid down their arms was not much different from this.

She executed the Tarlys because they DIDN'T.  Rewatch the damn episode.

Besides, he's right. Viserys abused her, Xaro and Doreah betrayed her and killed her friend, she crucified slave traders, and killed a bunch of mini Hitlers called the Khals. Literally none of that was wrong.

Except she could have taken them prisoner.

[GoTfan]

Honestly the way fans have reacted with such vitriol (especially when I have received death threats over liking this season) has really given me a terrible impression of the fanbase.

[GoTfan]

A conquerer has to show strength. What she did was nowhere near out-of-line in a time of war. This TV show isn't meant for softies.

This is a fascinating thing for someone to write, and would appear to partially back up Greer's thesis about the unhealthy nature of the show's fanbase. I think he errs in suggesting that this is the case for all, or even a majority, but it's definitely there.

There's unhealthy fanbases all around. I remember a certain subset doing the exact same thing to me when I had the sheer nerve to say I like The Last Jedi. The same thing happened because i like Captain Marvel.

I don't agree with Greer's thesis that all the viewers are twisted fetishists of some sort. Honestly, i just want to be able to sit back and enjoy my favourite show without having to look outside my window every few hours to make sure I'm not being watched.

[GoTfan]

A conquerer has to show strength. What she did was nowhere near out-of-line in a time of war. This TV show isn't meant for softies.

This is a fascinating thing for someone to write, and would appear to partially back up Greer's thesis about the unhealthy nature of the show's fanbase. I think he errs in suggesting that this is the case for all, or even a majority, but it's definitely there.

There's unhealthy fanbases all around. I remember a certain subset doing the exact same thing to me when I had the sheer nerve to say I like The Last Jedi. The same thing happened because i like Captain Marvel.

I don't agree with Greer's thesis that all the viewers are twisted fetishists of some sort. Honestly, i just want to be able to sit back and enjoy my favourite show without having to look outside my window every few hours to make sure I'm not being watched.

I try to enjoy these things for what they are.  In case of the movies,  the woke sh**t annoys me but still there was plenty to enjoy as well.

Personally I didn't see any of it, but I'm not going to get into a debate over it. Not worth an argument. I watch this stuff specifically so I can turn my brain off for a while each day.

[GoTfan]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

[GoTfan]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

Okay, I'm sorry, get over it?  Lol.  It was as a retort to the insinuation that the people complaining about the writing *didn't get* something or were missing something ... i.e., I would argue if there IS a side to this debate that is being a bit less intellectual about analyzing this season - which I was NOT saying there is - then there would be a better case for it being the defenders of D&D who were dumbing down their arguments to line up with what they wanted.

I have lost the motivation to try to convince people that character arcs, emotionally powerful storytelling and logic-driven plot have been scrapped for the sake of spectacle ... if you disagree at this point, you will never agree.

And I'll say the same for you.

In all honesty, Martin can be blames just as much for this. They signed on to adapt the books and Martin said he'd have them finished by now. From my understanding, they're working from a very basic bullet point list and have been for the last 4 seasons, which is why I find it hilarious that conspiracy theorists are saying he outright lied to them about the whole thing.

But of course, this is the same passage I ended up getting threats to my life over.

[GoTfan]

^ I am truly sorry if anyone online has literally sent you death threats; that is inexcusable.  However, I simply disagree with your defense of this writing.  I think it has gotten so bad that it can't conceivably be defended with a straight face.

You have implied previously that my IQ is lower simply because I like this season.

Well...

"I'M SmaRTeR ThAN  yOu beCauSE I HatE tHiS."

You sound like every single hipster in the world. Worse, like me in primary school. I understand not liking this, but don't go belittling everyone else just because you're in a bad mood over it.

This season's just given me a very bad impression of the fan base as a whole.

[GoTfan]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

[GoTfan]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w

You uh . . . Haven't been paying a moment of attention to anything I've said, have you?

It will happen in the books. You know why? Because Martin has literally given them a bullet point list of what is going to happen. You should know this by now. I know I've been saying it ad nauseam. But it takes longer than one sentence to say, so therefore it's invalid.

I am really growing to hate this fanbase more and more each day.

[GoTfan]

Having Daenerys indiscriminately slaughter the people of King's Landing via dragon fire was rather jarring, to say the least. It would have been more interesting, and in character, if she had the city sacked instead. The outcome would be the same, but the ensuing discussion (might) be more productive, as the fanbase would be divided in defending* or criticizing her.

*and there would be no shortage of people defending her

I disagree personally. This felt completely in character for someone who has violent tendencies and no one to hold her back. Been on the receiving end of people like that. Not a pleasant experience, let me tell you.

Of course it felt a bit rushed. Everything in the season has. Like I said, they're working from a basic bullet point list of how things end, and we're essentially seeing that list checked off because they have no idea how to fill in the gaps. Can't blame them for that.

The bolded is bullshlt.  Daenerys has displayed an undertone of ruthless behavior, but she has NEVER, ever displayed an indifference to - let alone a desire to play an active role in - the murder of innocents.  Literally everyone Dany has ever treated in a quasi-"Mad Queen" way had it coming.  She burnt a witch alive who murdered her husband and unborn child.  She crucified slavers who crucified children.  Heck, she chained up her dragons because they killed a child; she has displayed a basic kindness underneath even if she has wild impulses.

Has Dany done anything throughout this story that is any more "mad" than any other ruler?  Ned Stark beheaded someone for fleeing the White Walkers and trying to warn people in the South about a totally irrelevant sideshow the threat to the north.  Jon hanged an elementary school aged kid who was probably manipulated by grown men into betraying Jon.  If Dany's actions so far have *actually* foreshadowed to you that she was capable of committing genocide on King's Landing, then so have the actions of Tywin, Stannis, Robert, etc.  She clearly has an unhinged streak, and they could have easily done the fulfillment of this foreshadowing well.  They didn't.  Have Cersei refuse to surrender and have Dany refuse to take the high road and go light up the Red Keep.  You still get the spectacle, you still get the action, you still get Dany *going Mad Queen* but you don't get a total character assassination that makes zero sense.

I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that.  Say what you want about the season being rushed, but this is just lazy writing at this point.  They're ready for Star Wars.  Lastly, I will leave a YouTube review that I think properly sums up how shallow and surface level this once great show has become:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIr77g4082w

You uh . . . Haven't been paying a moment of attention to anything I've said, have you?

It will happen in the books. You know why? Because Martin has literally given them a bullet point list of what is going to happen. You should know this by now. I know I've been saying it ad nauseam. But it takes longer than one sentence to say, so therefore it's invalid.

I am really growing to hate this fanbase more and more each day.

"I don't doubt that GRRM will have Dany go down this route in the books, but I guarantee you it won't be the flip of a switch like that."  What about this sentence gives you the idea that I "missed" that GRRM will have this happen in the books?  As you have said *ad nauseam*, they were given very basic bullet points by GRRM - ala Dany will light up King's Landing and the White Walkers will be defeated ... the problem, as has also been said *ad nauseam* is D&D are so ing awful that they can't work with just bullet points to make a good story; they need the whole thing spelled out for them, as it was for the first five seasons.  Surely, you can see the semantics in the TONS of different ways Dany could have lit up King's Landing, and I refuse to believe you don't think it could have been done in a more emotionally satisfying way consistent with her character arc and past actions.

Dude, I am starting to think you ARE D&D ... for several reasons.

Think whatever the f**k you like of me. But when one side has been threatening to kill me over my opinion of season 8, what do you think my reaction is gonna be?

And stop pretending Martin is this writing God. He's not. You know why the last couple of books have taken ages to release? Because he wrote himself into a plot pit. He said he was going to have them all finished,  and I refuse to pin the blame on the producers who signed on to adapt a book series.

[GoTfan]

People really need to relax a bit. Even if Season 8 is an increasingly worse trainwreck terms of writing - which is a shame, because the acting has been excellent - no series is worth getting excessively vitriolic.

For all the problems I have with this season, it's worth pointing out Emilia Clarke has been absolutely phenomenal.

Indeed! I've never really liked her acting as Daenerys besides Season 1 and some of the few epic moments in Essos, and yet her performance this season has been excellent. If anything that makes the writing problem even more frustrating, that performance combined with good writing for the season could have been epic.

- I really liked that ShowArya ended up letting go of her desire for revenge and living for the future instead of letting her anger about the past destroy her (even if GRRM probably deserves credit for this rather than D&D) and her calling the Hound "Sandor" was a nice touch

Given how much I've criticized Arya in past years for being a psychopath I admit this was a very nice moment, and a welcome turn for the character.

Threatening someone with death is not "excessive vitriol". It's taken to a whole different level that's not acceptable on any level.

[GoTfan]

People really need to relax a bit. Even if Season 8 is an increasingly worse trainwreck terms of writing - which is a shame, because the acting has been excellent - no series is worth getting excessively vitriolic.

For all the problems I have with this season, it's worth pointing out Emilia Clarke has been absolutely phenomenal.

Indeed! I've never really liked her acting as Daenerys besides Season 1 and some of the few epic moments in Essos, and yet her performance this season has been excellent. If anything that makes the writing problem even more frustrating, that performance combined with good writing for the season could have been epic.

- I really liked that ShowArya ended up letting go of her desire for revenge and living for the future instead of letting her anger about the past destroy her (even if GRRM probably deserves credit for this rather than D&D) and her calling the Hound "Sandor" was a nice touch

Given how much I've criticized Arya in past years for being a psychopath I admit this was a very nice moment, and a welcome turn for the character.

Threatening someone with death is not "excessive vitriol". It's taken to a whole different level that's not acceptable on any level.

You keep bringing up "death threats" made against you that were by people not on Atlas. At least 10 times. It sucks that people suck, but dude, it's really getting old and it sounds like you need to see a counselor if it's bothering you that much that you have to repeat that ad nauseum here as a deflection point for when you get butthurt that people have legitimate criticisms of the poor show writing in Season 8. I'm sorry someone else on a completely different website threatened your life. That is probably a scary thing. But you have repeatedly lumped RINO Tom and anyone else who dares criticize season 8 in with that threat undeservedly. No one on this website threatened your life. So please stop treating it as we did.

No, I'm just a completely stupid moron who knows nothing about anything decent. At least that's the impressions I get from here.

God, I hate this fanbase.

[GoTfan]

People really need to relax a bit. Even if Season 8 is an increasingly worse trainwreck terms of writing - which is a shame, because the acting has been excellent - no series is worth getting excessively vitriolic.

For all the problems I have with this season, it's worth pointing out Emilia Clarke has been absolutely phenomenal.

Indeed! I've never really liked her acting as Daenerys besides Season 1 and some of the few epic moments in Essos, and yet her performance this season has been excellent. If anything that makes the writing problem even more frustrating, that performance combined with good writing for the season could have been epic.

- I really liked that ShowArya ended up letting go of her desire for revenge and living for the future instead of letting her anger about the past destroy her (even if GRRM probably deserves credit for this rather than D&D) and her calling the Hound "Sandor" was a nice touch

Given how much I've criticized Arya in past years for being a psychopath I admit this was a very nice moment, and a welcome turn for the character.

Threatening someone with death is not "excessive vitriol". It's taken to a whole different level that's not acceptable on any level.

You keep bringing up "death threats" made against you that were by people not on Atlas. At least 10 times. It sucks that people suck, but dude, it's really getting old and it sounds like you need to see a counselor if it's bothering you that much that you have to repeat that ad nauseum here as a deflection point for when you get butthurt that people have legitimate criticisms of the poor show writing in Season 8. I'm sorry someone else on a completely different website threatened your life. That is probably a scary thing. But you have repeatedly lumped RINO Tom and anyone else who dares criticize season 8 in with that threat undeservedly. No one on this website threatened your life. So please stop treating it as we did.

No, I'm just a completely stupid moron who knows nothing about anything decent. At least that's the impressions I get from here.

God, I hate this fanbase.

me me Me mE ME

Good job on not actually responding to anything. Not that I should expect anything different at this point.

[GoTfan]

People really need to relax a bit. Even if Season 8 is an increasingly worse trainwreck terms of writing - which is a shame, because the acting has been excellent - no series is worth getting excessively vitriolic.

For all the problems I have with this season, it's worth pointing out Emilia Clarke has been absolutely phenomenal.

Indeed! I've never really liked her acting as Daenerys besides Season 1 and some of the few epic moments in Essos, and yet her performance this season has been excellent. If anything that makes the writing problem even more frustrating, that performance combined with good writing for the season could have been epic.

- I really liked that ShowArya ended up letting go of her desire for revenge and living for the future instead of letting her anger about the past destroy her (even if GRRM probably deserves credit for this rather than D&D) and her calling the Hound "Sandor" was a nice touch

Given how much I've criticized Arya in past years for being a psychopath I admit this was a very nice moment, and a welcome turn for the character.

Threatening someone with death is not "excessive vitriol". It's taken to a whole different level that's not acceptable on any level.

You keep bringing up "death threats" made against you that were by people not on Atlas. At least 10 times. It sucks that people suck, but dude, it's really getting old and it sounds like you need to see a counselor if it's bothering you that much that you have to repeat that ad nauseum here as a deflection point for when you get butthurt that people have legitimate criticisms of the poor show writing in Season 8. I'm sorry someone else on a completely different website threatened your life. That is probably a scary thing. But you have repeatedly lumped RINO Tom and anyone else who dares criticize season 8 in with that threat undeservedly. No one on this website threatened your life. So please stop treating it as we did.

No, I'm just a completely stupid moron who knows nothing about anything decent. At least that's the impressions I get from here.

God, I hate this fanbase.

me me Me mE ME

Good job on not actually responding to anything. Not that I should expect anything different at this point.

I don't want to clog up the irony thread with stuff about a TV show, but dude ... look back at your response to people!  They'll bring up a problem they have with the show's writing and you have thrown out plenty of non sequiturs about how someone online wants to kill you.

When one side is threatening to kill people (and I have been followed home by someone) then of course I'm going to be bitter.

All I'll say is this: They were assured books would be finished. They are not, and the writers were largely given the task of untangling many stupid plot threads that Martin had overcomplicated. They literally have no other source material to go off of.

But hey, we're living in a world where liking season 8 is illegal or something.

[GoTfan]

^ No one here has threatened to kill you, so maybe you could just leave that one in the rear view mirror?  People here have typed at length about their specific concerns with the writing, and you have not extended the same effort toward defending the writing.  You just deflect because there are aspiring murderers and apparent stalkers out there who happen to share our view ??

And you touched on one of our points: D&D have demonstrated that they are very good at their jobs when they have source material but lack the creativity and storytelling prowess to put a good product out there without it.

And I am going to keep mentioning it. I don't care if anyone on this site has or not. Especially when your reponse to the whole thing has been "That's bad."

And they signed on to adapt a book series they were assured would be finished. You cannot hold them at fault for literally having to complete a story they had no role in creating in a completely different medium. But I'm just looking at this logically of course. What do i know?

[GoTfan]

^ No one here has threatened to kill you, so maybe you could just leave that one in the rear view mirror?  People here have typed at length about their specific concerns with the writing, and you have not extended the same effort toward defending the writing.  You just deflect because there are aspiring murderers and apparent stalkers out there who happen to share our view ??

And you touched on one of our points: D&D have demonstrated that they are very good at their jobs when they have source material but lack the creativity and storytelling prowess to put a good product out there without it.

And I am going to keep mentioning it. I don't care if anyone on this site has or not. Especially when your reponse to the whole thing has been "That's bad."

And they signed on to adapt a book series they were assured would be finished. You cannot hold them at fault for literally having to complete a story they had no role in creating in a completely different medium. But I'm just looking at this logically of course. What do i know?

Okay...

1) LMFAO, what should our response be beyond that?!  Change our views on the script?  Haha, PM me your address and we can all go in on a card and some chocolates to send you.  I’ll call your local police and plead with them to get you an armed guard outside your house, too.  In the meantime, I suggest avoiding Reddit and YouTube!

2) Oh, but I can.  I can expect them to do MUCH better than this.  And they haven’t.  They have managed to subvert everyone’s expectations!  It’s telling you can’t even budge on one aspect of the writing, too ... D&D claimed Dany “forgot” about the Iron Fleet a mere scene after she was across from Jon strategizing it and he mentions it?!  Come on, dude, if you’re going to defend this abortion, at least give an inch to not look like you’re related to them.

When the vast majority of people can see how dumbed down the writing has gotten and can accurately see D&D as mediocre writers and you find yourself in the other corner, it might be at least worth CONSIDERING that you need to re-evaluate?  After all, the death threat guy could be a lunatic who belongs in jail but also happens to have accurately perceived the atrocity that is this season’s writing, lol.

I see you decided to ignore my point about them bring signed on to adapt books and not create an original show.

But of course, it's easier to scream that this is the worst show in the history of television.

[GoTfan]

After not watching Game of Thrones at all following Season 5, I made the snap decision to try and watch the final season this year.

I regret everything.

I mean, the first two episodes were both very good. Episodes 3 and 5 were very well-made technically outside of the writing.

I can certainly agree with that.  Last Sunday’s episode would have been fantastic viewing for anybody who hasn’t watched any of the preceding 71 episodes.

Seen every episode about 5 times and read each book the same. I liked both of them, but that breaks dome sort of international law.

[GoTfan]

I mean no disrespect as you otherwise seem like a fine poster and such, but I have to put you on ignore for a little while.  Your recent posts here add zero value to the thread.

How brave of you.

[GoTfan]

What will be the fates of the surviving supporting cast...

1. Grey Worm?
2. Davos?
3. Bronn?
4. Brienne?
5. Pod?
6. Sam/Gilly?
(there's also Tormund, but we know he's already going back to the "true North")

Also, if someone kills Daenerys (Jon or Arya or Tyrion or Bran-possessed Drogon, whoever)... what exactly happens to the surviving Unsullied and Dothraki, and to Drogon?

I think Grey Worm is likely to die. Can't speak to the others.

[GoTfan]

After not watching Game of Thrones at all following Season 5, I made the snap decision to try and watch the final season this year.

I regret everything.

I mean, the first two episodes were both very good. Episodes 3 and 5 were very well-made technically outside of the writing.

I can certainly agree with that.  Last Sunday’s episode would have been fantastic viewing for anybody who hasn’t watched any of the preceding 71 episodes.

Seen every episode about 5 times and read each book the same. *snip*

Except I have.

But of course someone I've never met before on the internet knows exactly what I do.

[GoTfan]

After not watching Game of Thrones at all following Season 5, I made the snap decision to try and watch the final season this year.

I regret everything.

I mean, the first two episodes were both very good. Episodes 3 and 5 were very well-made technically outside of the writing.

I can certainly agree with that.  Last Sunday’s episode would have been fantastic viewing for anybody who hasn’t watched any of the preceding 71 episodes.

Seen every episode about 5 times and read each book the same. *snip*

Except I have.
*snip*

Ah, so we're troll mode now i see.

[GoTfan]

I liked it.

But I've become so jaded by the fanbase that I Didn't care. Also positive opinions are forbidden.

[GoTfan]

I liked it.

But I've become so jaded by the fanbase that I Didn't care. Also positive opinions are forbidden.

I didn't, but since you do, could you explain why you liked it? Maybe your perspective might shine some line on things I took for granted.

The same reason I've enjoyed most of this season: I don't view this as the end of the saga of Westeros. I view it as one chapter in a long history still being compiled. That's how I've seen it since about season 2. It's one period in the history of the country.

We often forget in the Wars of the Roses comparisons that they were just one part of British history that didn't solve everything. There was extreme religious turmoil in the years ahead, and wars that the entire island was never fully united behind. As far as the Holy Roman Empire comparisons i'm seeing, the religious wars basically tore it apart.

One chapter of Westeros is complete.  There are undoubtedly more.

[GoTfan]

Am I allowed to have a positive opinion? It seems like positive opinions are forbidden on pain of death or something.

[GoTfan]

Am I allowed to have a positive opinion? It seems like positive opinions are forbidden on pain of death or something.

You are, and you're also free to continue victimizing and feeling sorry for yourself even though no one here is criticizing you personally for liking the writing.

The hive mind says otherwise.

You also may want to look at the past few pages.