Desmond Tutu says he wouldn't want heaven if God condemns gays. How about you? (user search)
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  Desmond Tutu says he wouldn't want heaven if God condemns gays. How about you? (search mode)
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Author Topic: Desmond Tutu says he wouldn't want heaven if God condemns gays. How about you?  (Read 3145 times)
Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
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« on: July 26, 2013, 06:53:06 PM »

Desmond Tutu has always been an role model of mine in my spiritual (and someday to be ministerial) life.  I share his sentiments entirely, as I abandoned the whole "God hates gays/gay behaviors/people who aren't like me" stuff many years ago.  I am just not capable of having a personal relationship with a God who condemns homosexuals, and if the God I've come to know all these years turns out to be the wrong one, well, then damn me to hell.
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Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2013, 08:39:27 PM »

His Will Be Done. Is Mr. Tutu alleging that, were God to be "homophobic", there would be a moral judgement beyond God's? Doesn't that void the entire concept we have of the Christian God? And with Hell being defined as total and utter separation from God--thus resulting in all sorts of awfulness without His presence--Tutu would be dooming himself quite much to opt out of heaven.

A homophobic God would void the entire concept progressive Christians have of Him, yes.  I don't know if I'd say Reverend Tutu is arguing that there is a moral judgment beyond God, but rather that if God's kingdom is a homophobic place and homophobia is one of the moral judgments, then he'd want no part in it.  In other words, all his advocacy of equal rights would have been for naught.  And personally, I can't blame him for feeling that way.  If you found out that God thought killing kittens and kicking babies was the right thing to do, what would your reaction be to that?
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Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 08:51:04 PM »

Desmond Tutu has always been an role model of mine in my spiritual (and someday to be ministerial) life.  I share his sentiments entirely, as I abandoned the whole "God hates gays/gay behaviors/people who aren't like me" stuff many years ago.  I am just not capable of having a personal relationship with a God who condemns homosexuals, and if the God I've come to know all these years turns out to be the wrong one, well, then damn me to hell.

Tutu's position is problematic; not his view on homosexuality, so much as his notion of not wanting to worship _____ God. As Cathcon said, there is no moral judgement above God (in the Christian view). As fallible, fallen humans it is unsurprising that our moral views sometimes come into conflict with God's.

By rejecting "homophobic God", Tutu is echoing Satan in Paradise Lost "Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n."; rejecting God in favour of rebellion. This is very different that arguing that God is ok with homosexuality, it is much deeper and much more dangerous than that.

Well, if believing in equality is rebelling against God, then I guess the Reverend and I are destined for a not-so-nice place when we die. Tongue

(I should note that I'm saying this as someone who doesn't believe in a Hell or "other place" for people whose morals differ from God's.  I can only speak for myself on that, of course.)
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