SENATE BILL: The 'DREAM' Act (Law'd)

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I certainly hope the Senate has an alternative solution to ensuring that the children of illegal immigrants do not struggle through the system with a low GPA.  I'll interpret the removal of that standard as a signal that there will be something to replace that, even though no one has proposed such a substitute.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I already explained it.  The GPA requirement was included to help prevent beneficiaries of the program from not being successful.  If we're taking away that standard, the least we should do is put a new one in that fulfills the same purpose.  I urge the Senate to defeat this bill if the President's proposal ends up being the final text.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I already explained it.  The GPA requirement was included to help prevent beneficiaries of the program from not being successful.  If we're taking away that standard, the least we should do is put a new one in that fulfills the same purpose.  I urge the Senate to defeat this bill if the President's proposal ends up being the final text.

The GPA requirement will not prevent beneficiaries from being unsuccessful, it simply prevents beneficiaries. You're automatically counting what is likely a majority of people who would otherwise be eligible through that single requirement. A 2.7 GPA could be difficult to reach for someone who might not have as good a grasp of the English language as a native Atlasian. The military or college degree requirements are what will determine the success of these citizenship-hopefuls.

It simply gives beneficiaries the incentive to succeed in school, in spite of their disadvantages, so that they won't end up trapped in poverty.  If a 2.7 GPA won't do the trick, then there should be something else put in the bill to ensure academic success and prevent that from happening.  None of the opponents of the GPA requirement have yet offered an alternative standard or provision to the bill that fulfill the same purpose.  So I'll ask again: what do we have as something that can be added to the bill, instead?  If someone just flat out says, "We have none," then well, at least it's honest.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

That is correct.

Hopefully the Senate can pass my proposed compromise bill.

The senate reached a compromise that managed to garner "aye" votes from nine out of ten senators. Apparently this compromise means very little.

I know thinking has always been your strong suit, so consider me surprised to see this sort of post from you, but this compromise I've proposed is more likely to get that Nay voter on board. I'm reaching out to build consensus here and you're just continuing to throw around attacks to amuse yourself.

Yes, Mr. Wonderful, and your so-called "compromise" is certainly going to lose at least one vote anyway. So instead of appreciating the decision the senate came to, you'd rather have us jump through bureaucratic hoops for a result that will at best include the same number of ayes that it recieved in the first place. And, quite frankly, I don't think that best case scenario is all that likely. So congrats on your selfless compromise.

Precisely.  The "compromise" was already made when the GPA standard was lowered.  But of course, that's just not enough for some people.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

In my view, those who come into Atlasia with less advantages have more hoops to go through in general.  If we don't include something in the bill (if not more standards, but something else) that ensures that these students will succeed in spite of their disadvantages, they are more likely to end up in poverty than a native-born Atlasian.  With no other safeguard against that, the bill would not be fulfilling its central purpose.  I'm willing to support removal of the GPA requirement if something else is added, but again, that hasn't happened yet, and I cannot endorse a bill that guarantees citizenship but nothing else to those who are disadvantaged.

If I might suggest, perhaps the Senate can consider creating a program that's tailored to the needs of those who were not born in Atlasia and helps them succeed, as a substitute.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Again, I reiterate my opposition to this bill.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I'm embarrassed that a former Secretary of External Affairs feels our military personnel doesn't deserve citizenship unless they earn a B average in high school.

Here are the facts:

1) Getting a college degree is more likely to give you a successful future than having a good high school GPA.
2) A good high school GPA is pretty much necessary to get to college.
3) To quote Scott, the bill's original author:

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4) Someone with a 2.0 GPA can be a very productive member of our society. That person may not go to college and become a doctor but if they are willing to put their life on the line for this nation's security, and you're still willing to tell them they aren't welcome here, it's not that that there is a problem with that person. There's a problem with you.

If don't have a decent high school GPA, you will have a much difficult time getting into college.  People wanted a lower GPA.  Okay, we did that.  Eliminating it entirely wasn't necessary.  While I don't think grades themselves are everything, they are unfortunately the only way of measuring academic success with the current system.  I would anticipate a change to that provision of the DREAM Act if the student evaluation system were changed as well, but for now we are left with GPA.

Earlier, we could have discussed using different methods of measuring student success and improving the requirement itself (which could have even meant making it less restrictive in its nature), but you chose to wait until the last minute to make emotional appeals and completely misrepresent why some of us feel that there should be GPA requirement in the name of political correctness.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Because, as I've explained a million times, there needs to be some type of safeguard for those who are more likely to be unsuccessful because of their disadvantages.  I laid those out in the original draft of the bill to be discussed.  The standards were intended to be altered in a way that would make them better for people who take advantage of the program, but should not have been removed if they serve a purpose.

The GPA requirement, in my view, served a very important purpose, and if it wasn't acceptable in the eyes of my colleagues, could have been replaced by something that carries its same intentions.  Indeed, a high GPA is essential to get into a good college, and that's what draws the connection between that and living a successful life.  It goes without saying that the GPA wouldn't have to be the absolute maximum, but it should be reasonable and it should be enough to incentive success in high school as long as it's there.

You mention students who struggle.  That is a problem that could have been addressed much earlier in the debate.  And of course, even if a student does take a military career, that doesn't negate the importance of a good high school performance.  It isn't that I'm against giving citizenship to those who want it, it's that I don't want our message to be, "We'll give you your citizenship, but leave you to fend for yourself after that."  And such was the reasoning behind the GPA requirement.  It's not necessarily the GPA itself I care about -- that's not the issue at all -- but it's the placement of something that will help immigrants find good jobs and not fall through the cracks because they were off to a rough start.  I was open to alternatives.  I was open to compromise and not causing disdain for myself for literally every single person I've met on this site.

But was an alternative proposed?  No.  Instead, we've seen a barrage of strawman arguments, personal attacks, emotional appeals, and absolutely no willingness to compromise on this issue, all over a disagreement that could have been settled weeks ago.  Now people want to pass this bill with less standards and nothing to adequately ensure that these people succeed in high school, succeed in college, and succeed in life as an Atlasian citizen.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

It's simple: the GPA requirement is an incentive for citizenship.  Nowhere in that post did I say that the requirement is unnecessary, and I have no idea where you got that from.  You can't expect someone to succeed in college if they didn't in high school.  I will admit that maybe such a requirement should be applied to college instead of or as well as high school (not that I have any confidence that such a change would get support from the Senate), or only to those who opt not to serve in the military, but that was never put on the table as opposed to the proposed plan that removes the standard entirely.  Being in school is great; succeeding in school is better.

I'm not getting emotional.  I just think the way you paint your opponents on this issue is, quite frankly, silly.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Would you be open, Napoleon, to making the aforementioned changes?

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Let me explain.  The original intent of this bill was to allow young undocumented immigrants to either earn citizenship through the military or through the education system alone.  In order to get into college, of course, students must do well in high school, and that's why the requirement was set for high school in order to prepare for the higher expectations of college.  Essentially, it was an idea for promoting early success and long-lasting success.  I need to emphasize that it's not that I'm anti-citizenship, it's that I'm for social insurance, and if you disagree with the method I used to apply that, I respect it and I'm more than willing to hear new ideas that are better and produce results that we can still have confidence in.  That's why it isn't necessarily GPA itself that I consider the underlying issue here, but simply removing the requirement just wasn't what I had hoped for as a constructive response to the proposal.

Would you be open, Napoleon, to making the aforementioned changes?

What are you proposing?

I was proposing moving the standards from high school to college.  I also suggested the creation of an educational/vocational assistance program for applicants, earlier.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

The bill requires that applicants "successfully complete" four years of college, but sets no numerical standards.  If you are opposed to that as well, then I hope you at least consider the assistance program.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Ideally, the program would provide assistance to those whom, for what ever reason, are not adequately helped by the law itself.  But if this is the route you want to take things, then I suppose I have no control.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I love you people.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Thank you, Mr. Vice President!

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

I am okay with exempting veterans from the GPA requirement.

[Bleach Blonde Bad Built Butch Bodies for Biden]

Part of me wants to do a classic Gore line from joint session verifying the results after the 2000 elections about needing a Senator, but I don't have time.

Hey, this bill is my baby.

Or at least, it was before Ben adopted it.