WP: Percentage of women in executive-level roles declined from 12.2% to 11.8% in 2023

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

I already know that I’m gonna get jumped by a bunch of red avatars for saying this, but men are just naturally more inclined towards leadership positions, so even in a society where sexism is nonexistent,  >50% of executives will be men. I’m not saying that sexism isn’t holding any women back from becoming executives, I just don’t think it’s the main factor. I’m also not saying that someone should be held back from being promoted to an executive position just because they’re a women. I’m just saying that Generic Male will be a bit more inclined towards leadership positions than Generic Female. Maybe in a post-sexism society, the amount of females in leadership positions would be 35%, maybe 25%, or maybe even 12%. Idk how much more inclined the male mind is towards leadership than the female mind, but I don’t think the ratio would ever naturally be 50/50

[citation needed]

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Is the concept of differing preferences between groups being caused by said groups facing different societal expectations incomprehensible to y'all? There are probably biological differences between men and women psychologically, but AFAIK they appear to be much smaller than the biological differences crowd likes to think and are dwarfed by societal differences that are ultimately rooted in the fact that AMAB people had on average serious physical strength advantages that made them far more important to society in subsistence agriculture societies.

I already know that I’m gonna get jumped by a bunch of red avatars for saying this, but men are just naturally more inclined towards leadership positions, so even in a society where sexism is nonexistent,  >50% of executives will be men. I’m not saying that sexism isn’t holding any women back from becoming executives, I just don’t think it’s the main factor. I’m also not saying that someone should be held back from being promoted to an executive position just because they’re a women. I’m just saying that Generic Male will be a bit more inclined towards leadership positions than Generic Female. Maybe in a post-sexism society, the amount of females in leadership positions would be 35%, maybe 25%, or maybe even 12%. Idk how much more inclined the male mind is towards leadership than the female mind, but I don’t think the ratio would ever naturally be 50/50

Yeah I tend to agree with this. My ideal is equality shouldn't be about trying to achieve arbitrary quotas, but to give everyone equal opportunity and access and let the chips fall where they may. We already see this with a lot of lower-tier jobs that aren't super hard to obtain - elementary school teachers are disproportionately female for instance.

One problem in the case of the executive example that could be hard to pick up on is that existing executives being disproportionately male may mean females who are qualified and actually want to become executives face more hardships simply by being in the minority, even if it's a "natural minority".

I feel like many people (left and right) struggle with basic concepts, like equality =/= equity, or men and women being different on average can still mean there are many cases where those averages don't apply.

I wouldn't deny that sexism is probably reducing the ratio of male to female executives by some amount, but I just don't think it's by a very significant amount. Maybe if sexism was just totally removed from society, the % of female executives would be 15-20%.

A bit of a tangent, but it's weird to me how the posters who get most offended by the suggestion that Generic Male and Generic Female don't think exactly alike are also the most pro-trans posters. If there are no natural differences between the male and female mind, then how could trans people exist? You can't be a woman stuck in a man's body if there are no general mental differences between men and women

Tell me you don't understand trans people without telling me you don't understand trans people.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

I already know that I’m gonna get jumped by a bunch of red avatars for saying this, but men are just naturally more inclined towards leadership positions, so even in a society where sexism is nonexistent,  >50% of executives will be men. I’m not saying that sexism isn’t holding any women back from becoming executives, I just don’t think it’s the main factor. I’m also not saying that someone should be held back from being promoted to an executive position just because they’re a women. I’m just saying that Generic Male will be a bit more inclined towards leadership positions than Generic Female. Maybe in a post-sexism society, the amount of females in leadership positions would be 35%, maybe 25%, or maybe even 12%. Idk how much more inclined the male mind is towards leadership than the female mind, but I don’t think the ratio would ever naturally be 50/50

[citation needed]

Nature, history, etc.

Least sexist Atlas poster

I guess most mammal species are also sexist because the leaders of their packs are pretty much always males. It’s not sexist to point out that men and women, when compared as an aggregate, have different preferences. It’d be sexist if I said that men are just straight up better than women overall or women are literally incapable of being leaders, which is not what I said.

Let me spell it out for you in very simple terms because it seems very hard to understand for the extremely intelligent, apparently leadership-inclined atlas males. First, there are animals where females take leadership roles, and animals where male do. This is a fact. Second, I hope you will agree, humans are unique in how developed they are as a society- it is extremely influential on human attitudes and actions historically. Human society has developed as a patriarchal society, and as these attitudes lessened somehow in recent years, so did women’s roles in many countries radically changed. So far this is factual.

Taking in mind the huge influence of social attitudes on gendered behavior, how the hell can you claim to know exactly what women are naturally inclined for? In a society with zero societal influence you could have anywhere from 0% to 100% female executives, but a society with zero societal influence is impossible. When you try to use preference aggregation, numbers that are painfully obviously influenced by patriarchal norms, you just look ridiculous. So what we’re left with is pushing for equality, because patriarchal society does incredible harm to both men and women. When you come into this thread and claim to know something that is impossible to know- the true, unfiltered preferences of each sex absent society- the message you convey is simply “I don’t want women in leadership positions- here’s why”.

Idk how people keep on missing that I did say sexism probably is also playing a role here. The point I'm trying to make here is that this might not be as much of a problem to solve as many red avatars here think it is, not that I "don't want women in leadership positions".

The point you're trying to make here is well understood. The points being made in response, however, seem to be going completely over your head.

[Since I'm the mad scientist proclaimed by myself]

Is the concept of differing preferences between groups being caused by said groups facing different societal expectations incomprehensible to y'all? There are probably biological differences between men and women psychologically, but AFAIK they appear to be much smaller than the biological differences crowd likes to think and are dwarfed by societal differences that are ultimately rooted in the fact that AMAB people had on average serious physical strength advantages that made them far more important to society in subsistence agriculture societies.

I already know that I’m gonna get jumped by a bunch of red avatars for saying this, but men are just naturally more inclined towards leadership positions, so even in a society where sexism is nonexistent,  >50% of executives will be men. I’m not saying that sexism isn’t holding any women back from becoming executives, I just don’t think it’s the main factor. I’m also not saying that someone should be held back from being promoted to an executive position just because they’re a women. I’m just saying that Generic Male will be a bit more inclined towards leadership positions than Generic Female. Maybe in a post-sexism society, the amount of females in leadership positions would be 35%, maybe 25%, or maybe even 12%. Idk how much more inclined the male mind is towards leadership than the female mind, but I don’t think the ratio would ever naturally be 50/50

Yeah I tend to agree with this. My ideal is equality shouldn't be about trying to achieve arbitrary quotas, but to give everyone equal opportunity and access and let the chips fall where they may. We already see this with a lot of lower-tier jobs that aren't super hard to obtain - elementary school teachers are disproportionately female for instance.

One problem in the case of the executive example that could be hard to pick up on is that existing executives being disproportionately male may mean females who are qualified and actually want to become executives face more hardships simply by being in the minority, even if it's a "natural minority".

I feel like many people (left and right) struggle with basic concepts, like equality =/= equity, or men and women being different on average can still mean there are many cases where those averages don't apply.

I wouldn't deny that sexism is probably reducing the ratio of male to female executives by some amount, but I just don't think it's by a very significant amount. Maybe if sexism was just totally removed from society, the % of female executives would be 15-20%.

A bit of a tangent, but it's weird to me how the posters who get most offended by the suggestion that Generic Male and Generic Female don't think exactly alike are also the most pro-trans posters. If there are no natural differences between the male and female mind, then how could trans people exist? You can't be a woman stuck in a man's body if there are no general mental differences between men and women

Tell me you don't understand trans people without telling me you don't understand trans people.

@bold Explain it to me then.

You have persistently shown an unwillingness to engage on this topic constructively and in good faith. I'm not going to try my hand at a 5 paragraph effortpost that will ultimately be responded to with the same kind of vapid response you always make on issues relating to gender and such. Instead I'm going to link to a youtube video that changed my perspective on gender.